Cyclamatic: The Beastamatic is dead! Long live the Beastamatic

[joeytwomugs]

Hi again,

I know that this thread is beginning to look like a two way conversation but there is at least one other person watching with a mixture of confusion and bemusement. My battery from BMS finally arrived and was in the wrong casing. As it costs as much for the delivery as it does for the battery I had the choice of buying a new battery or rehousing the cells (no refund on delivery costs), which is what I opted for. Tomorrow I will have it all hooked up again and will be able to test the shunt mod for myself. I have a few questions for the clever people... Firstly I am assuming the volume of solder used on the shunt is important, not just to shorten the 'resisted distance' (feel free to correct my terminology) but to make sure that it doesn't overheat the solder as the path of least resistance if the solder is too thinly spread. Is that right? Or can I use relatively little solder as long as it goes far enough along the shunt. Secondly would it be possible for someone to post a pic of their 12a controller with tags for each of the wires coming off it so that I can understand which wires you are referring to while I read your posts (and compare to my controller). I was particularly interested to see you guys mention a speed limit wire and would love to know if something can be done to remove the capped speed. Would it need to have a false signal fed to it or would simply unplugging it work? Oh yeah, and as Evandine seems to have the same controller I have, could you let me know if you also have a single loose white wire in your loom... I can't see what it is supposed to connect to, if I just plug it into stuff to see what happens am I in danger of breaking it?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

As far as I know, the Cyclamatics aren't speed limited. They're just not powerful enough to go over 15 mph. You can test this by putting a bike cycle computer temporarily on the back wheel to see how dast it goes. It should be about 20mph or more. Mine definitely wasn't speed limited. I seem to remember a spare white wire with no function. Don't plug it in to anything otherwise you could get damage.

When I solder the shunt, I try to get a thick coating. The idea is to make part of the wire as close to zero resistance as possible. Be careful not to let blobs run through the shunt holes to the other side of the pcb. I usually turn the controller sideways on so that no blobs can fall on the pcb or run through. Don't go past half-way along the shunt unless you have a wattmeter that shows how many ampsyou're getting. 1/3 of the way is a good start. You'll find the shunt lying along underneath the big capacitor.

You might find this one useful.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/technical/9183-cyclamatic-controller-mod-walkthrough-pics.html

Could you show a picture of the battery that BMSBattery sent you?

 

[joeytwomugs]

I've already done the mod but have been unable to test it, the solder runs about a third across but down one side only and not too thick, so it will just reduce the resistance by a smaller amount then? Its no in danger of heating up to the degree that the solder softens and causes damage elsewhere. I won't plug that white wire into anything. Since the guy said he couldn't squeeze 36v 15ah into that case I went for the 24v 15ah (even though he was offering exactly that on the website at the time). The case size was my own error, so I can't complain about BMS for that, it clearly states the size on the website I just assumed it was a standardised size. Until I had to consider returning it though I also hadn't thought about the price of delivery being the same as the price of the item, if the item is returned you don't get the delivery cost back meaning you have to pay for the return of your battery plus for the delivery of the new one, so you might as well not return it and buy the same item again. This is the one I got except with the 15ah cells (which no longer appears on their site)...

24V10Ah LiFePO4 Alloy 01-Case Battery Pack - BMSBATTERY

It is just a little too wide from front to back.

 

[joeytwomugs]

I forgot to ask, 24v is 24v as far as chargers is concerned right? I still have my old charger which was for lifepo4 cells 10ah but there is no reason not to use it right? It'll mean I can leave one at work and one at home.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What exactly is wrong with the case that stops it from fitting?

The shunt doesn't get hot enough to melt the solder, so nothing to worry about there. If you're sticking to 24v, you can go about half way along the shunt with the solder.

 

[evendine]

Have to say, the shunt on my main bike is half soldered and i'm running 36v, but then again its controller is 14A, so perhaps that accounts for it running well to date? As d8veh says, best to stick with 1/3 solder max, unless you have some way to meter the current. Will give you a useful torque boost going up hills and higher top speed, for sure. I took a step by step approach, starting with maybe 20% soldered and slowly increasing it.

Know the white wire you mean joey - it seems to be related to throttle 'start point' - trying to fix an old bike at the mo which has a pot wired to it and it seems to effect things in that way.

Thinking of putting a circuit diagram and 'bluffer's guide' together at some point

 

[joeytwomugs]

The battery case is 2-3cm wider when looking at the bike from the side and so it doesn't fit in the slot for the battery on the bike...

I'll put a little more on after I give it a test run as it is. For now I fired it back up last night and everything still seemed to be functioning so fingers crossed I've not broken it so far!!

 

[joeytwomugs]

A bluffers guide would be great, just knowing what should be connected to what would have kept my mind at ease a little more... Having said that it does all seem to be running.

 

[evendine]

Have tried the good bike controller and batt plugged into the faulty bike's back wheel - runs smooth as silk

On the other hand, plugging the faulty bike's controller and batt into the good bike's back wheel gives the original fault. Tried batt from good bike on faulty bike - issue remains, so clearly the problem is batt connection, controller, or non-wheel-connection based.

I checked the 3 phase AC output of the faulty bike's controller and there were some obvious differences. Under load; green = 25, blue = 27v, yellow = 30v. Also noticed that the faulty bike's controller heat-sink had been badly connected thermally to its box - only one of the FET pairs had any heat-sink paste on it - the yellow one, coincidentally.

Anyone got a controller they want to sell? (Suppose I should cross check by switching controllers, first really).

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The tiny ones that the Cyclamatic uses are difficult to find. I was thinking that it might be possible to squeeze in a ku63 from BMSBattery if you removed it from its case and the unwanted wires. You could cut one side off the unused case to use as a heatsink. It might just fit. You don't really need the case because the controller is installed in a compartment.

 

[evendine]

Nice idea d8veh Worth a try, i should think...

Another possibility might be to use the original controller box - do you happen to know the size of the KU63 PCB? From this pic, it looks to be quite a bit smaller than the case it's in:

http://www.avdweb.nl/Article_files/Solarbike/Motor-controller/250W-DC-brushless-motor-controller-X8M06-C.JPG

(from: KU63 motor controller)

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I haven't got my ruler to hand, but I can tell you it's about 2.5mm shorter than a credit card and 8mm narrower. The controller in its case will fit in the compartment, but not the connectors as well. and the wires are too stiff to tidy the wires. You can save some space by cutting off the unwanted wires at the pcb end - like 3 speed switch, speed limit, high voltage brake, etc.

 

[jhruk]

As I just happen to have a bare KU63 in front of me:

PCB is 83mm x 46mm. Height required is 20mm. Measured without front plate.

 

[evendine]

Ah - just a bit too big for the original box then - 80 x 42 x 26mm internal dimensions...

 

[evendine]

I contacted the original manufacturers of the standard controller last night and asked for some pricing on their current LSW70A model (spec: Nanjing Lishui Electronics Research Institute Co.,Ltd. www.lsdzs.com). Seems well featured, with for example cruise control and regen braking options.

They have offered to ship direct from Shanghai for $25 + delivery, so might well be worth considering. Seems to have the same case dimensions as the original...

 

[evendine]

Anyone have any thoughts on replacing the 3 phase power wires from the controller to the motor. The standard ones are really quite skinny. Have noticed some signs of the wires overheating on my 36v bike and imagine beefier ones will help with power delivery to the motor...

 

[Scimitar]

I've seen that done a few time over on EndlessSphere - not a difficult job, just fiddly.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Anyone have any thoughts on replacing the 3 phase power wires from the controller to the motor. The standard ones are really quite skinny. Have noticed some signs of the wires overheating on my 36v bike and imagine beefier ones will help with power delivery to the motor...

We discussed the thickness of phase wires on Endless sphere, because some powerful motors have very thin ones. The conclusion was that they're more than adequate for the job, so nothing to worry about.

Just make suire that the connections are tight. Always re-squish the barrels before re-connecting.

 

[evendine]

Was thinking more of the 3 phase power cables which carry the main power to the motor. When I opened my 36v controller compartment up the other day to compare the connections with the Rat, found a couple of the wires had partly melted insulation and some evidence of arcing.

The idea is to get some 13A mains cable, strip the outer insulation off to save space and run the wires directly to the motor terminals, soldering the connections at the controller end. Prob heat-shrink them end-to-end along with the hall sensor wires. Even soldering the controller ends of the existing wires has improved power delivery, so should be an interesting experiment...

The original manufacturers of the controller got back to me with the attached feature request sheet. Like the idea of a cruise control set simply by leaving the throttle in one position for a while. They want $65 for the unit delivered by air, but looks like it should be possible to customise the voltage and current limits, as well as fit it in the existing space. Anyone have any thoughts on suitable limits or ideas for other settings for a 36v bike? Wonder if they could fit a USB computer interface and supply some software for setting it up? Maybe add a 15mph limit and off-road switch

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Melted wires, just means that a lot of current went through them. If you get problems with the hall wires, or if you try and hold the motor on the brakes (without cut-offs), the controller can push massive current down the phase wires - probably what caused its demise.

just remember that there's thousands of Cyclamatics running around, some with modified shunts etc. and they didn't upgrade their phase wires, and neither did I when I ran with 18amp and 36v.

The cruise control is nearly useless. You have to hold the throttle at the same position for about 5 secs to set it, which is nearly impossible on our bumpy roads. It works OK on full throttle, but it scares you to death, when you let go the throttle to slow down, instead you carry on at full speed. I tried it for a bit, but then puklled the wires to disable it.

You can make your own cruise control with simple parts from Maplin for a fiver. You need one standard 10K linear potentiometer, a three position switch (or 2 position) and a 1" cube pot box., and about 10 to 15 mins work.

The speed limit device you describe already exists as the Speedict, which costs about £70. It's a microprocessor that goes between your throttle/pedal sensor and the controller. It has various ready-made legal settings and an over-ride facility. You need an Android phone to set it up and to display speed and battery info - and to use the panic button (over-ride). It works by bluetooth, so you can change to legal mode from 20 ft away.

One other thing. Check that that controller doesn't have PAS precedence, i.e. you can use the throttle independently without pedalling. Jerry bought one similar and found that the PAS enabled the throttle, so no pedalling = no throttle.