Cyclamatic: The Beastamatic is dead! Long live the Beastamatic

I'm sorry to hear that the Beastamatic is temporarily dead. I'm sure that it'll be alive and well again soon, but in the meantime its spirit will live on in the Beastamatic II.

 

Mine arrived today - much quicker than I expected. Here's what I got.

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/Cyclamatic/SANY0149.jpg

It took me about 20 mins to put it together. I was quite impressed by most of it, but it had one problem that need sorting: The front wheel bearings were miles too tight, so I set them right. I had difficulty adjusting the stem height because I couldn't loosen the hex screws at the side, but I managed to knock it up with a mallet after removing the locking screw underneath. The only disappointing thing was the rear drum brake, which means 160mm between drop-outs - much wider than all my spare motors, but, hopefully, if I smoke a motor, I can just change the internals.

Tomorrow, I will test it in standard form and see if I can get a measure for its climbing ability and speed on the flat.

While waiting for it to charge, I opened up the controller cavity, took out the controller and had a look inside. My first thought was how tiny it is, and it's rated at a mere 6A. Here's a picture of it compared to my 36v 30A controller.

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/Cyclamatic/SANY0154.jpg

Inside I found that the capacitors are rated at 50v. That's right on the limit for a 12s lipo pack, but should be ok for a 10s pack. What does anyone think. The FETs are 80NF70: 68v, 98A, 190w, so should be ok for quite an increase on their present situation as long as they can be kept cool. The regulator is a PJ317, which has an output od 1.5 to 37v and a differential between Vin and Vout of 40v. What is it's normal Vout - anyone know? NRG?

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/Cyclamatic/SANY0152.jpg

 

I need to get a new wattmeter/ammeter before I start modifying the controller, so that I can see the differences, so It'll be a couple of days before I do that.

Steps I want to try:

1. Solder shunt

2. 15amp controller mounted externally plus 36v battery

3. 15 amp controller and 44v battery

4. 15amp controller soldered shunt and 44v battery

5. Throw it off a cliff and claim the electric bike speed record at 150mph.

Looks like they changed the specs slightly on the controller.

Mines rated at 7A, maximum 14A.

No wonder they've got no b*lls stock

Edited September 29, 201114 yr by Fordulike

No wonder they've got no b*lls stock

 

Yep, thats weedy!

 

The FET's look OK, I would replace the caps to be safe though. The regulator input / output differential is the typical 40v so if output is 5v then 35v input is your max. Just measure to be sure... If there is no input resistor network to lower the voltage to the regulator then its straight forward to add one if you know the current draw at idle...you could place a 100R resistor in line with the regulator input (lift the input leg and add it) then measure the drop across it with all the peripherals plugged in and powered on.

 

Alternatively go for one of the new E-Crazyman controllers off Ebay that support multiple voltages....

This Cyclamatic saga simply refuses to quit! This must have been what the Wright brothers felt.... do or die. That's the great thing about a 'good value' bike - it's not the end of the world if it goes pear-shaped and a real bonus if it flies.

I just took it out for a test ride and I must say that I was pleasantly surprised. My road is a slight to medium hill, and it made it up without pedalling. It seemed very free when free-wheeling down. Then I took it to our steep test hill and it stalled out very quickly. I tried again with moderate pedalling and it made it easily and quietly. It's not far behind my 36v 15amp Sunlova - if anything! To be honest, it's miles better than I expected. And another thing: I paid effectively £369 for it, but then I found out that I get 5% off my next purchase, so that might mean that the next one is only £349. That's a steal!

Sorry I'm not sure to follow what is the project Beastmatic? is it some kind of "pimp my bike"?

Sorry I'm not sure to follow what is the project Beastmatic? is it some kind of "pimp my bike"?

 

Yep, Tim Westwood's getting drafted in to host the thread

Sorry I'm not sure to follow what is the project Beastmatic? is it some kind of "pimp my bike"?

 

The Cyclamatic is one of the cheapest ebikes you can buy., and as I found out, it seems to be not bad (performance-wise) compared with the more expensive bikes. The question is: Can it be made into a desirable ebike for very little money? My suspicion is that it can be made into a capable contender for about £500 total.

but for £500, wouldn't that be better to purchase a second hand bike and 1000W motor, and get a new battery?

but for £500, wouldn't that be better to purchase a second hand bike and 1000W motor, and get a new battery?

Possibly. Everything has advantages and disadvantages. Different people make different choices for different reasons. Plus, loads of people have already bought Cyclamatics and some of them will be wishing for a bit more power. Maybe we can get some answers for them. For me it's just a game to figure out different ways of doing things.

For me it's just a game to figure out different ways of doing things.

 

Exactly, couldn't have put it better myself

Lol ok, just for the challenge then

 

I'm following this thread closely, maybe you can make this bike go to 40km/h and weight less than 20kg?

Lol ok, just for the challenge then

 

I'm following this thread closely, maybe you can make this bike go to 40km/h and weight less than 20kg?

 

I'm building the Unicyclamatic this weekend

I went out for a longer test ride today and discovered a couple of things. The motor pulls to about 19 or 20mph downhill. On the flat it only has enough power to get my bulk to about 15mph. By the time I got home, the rear spokes were creaking. When I checked the tension, I found that they weren't very tight - slap on the wrist to the guys at Cyclamatic. That's now two unnecessary critical problems with the bike so far that the average Joe wouldn't know how to sort, or perhaps he wouldn't even recognise them.

 

I decided to have a look inside the battery . Inside is thirty five 3.7v 2160mAH 22650 cells and a bit of space above them. That makes seven in series for 25.9v nominal, 29.4v fully charged, and five in series for 10.6AH.

 

When I turned the battery upside down I could hear/feel clunking. The glue inside wasn't enough to hold the cell ppack in place, so they could jump inside each time I went over a bump. I filled the space with some blocks of expanded polystyrene to hold them more securely.

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/Cyclamatic/SANY0150.jpg

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/Cyclamatic/SANY0149-1.jpg

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/Cyclamatic/SANY0148.jpg

Everything is built to a price.

Welcome to the world of the Cyclamatic's niggly little problems

 

I managed to pick up on the spoke problem pretty quickly.

 

The battery mod came a bit later when it cut out, and I opened up the casing to see what was wrong.

Surprising how much space is above the battery pack, and why on earth the manufacturers didn't pack this out at the factory stage

A few hundred miles of battery pack jumping up and down inside the case is just asking for trouble.

 

A few more problems came to my attention during its epic journey.

 

The front brakes eventually started to squeal on braking, no matter how well I adjusted them.
I replaced the calipers and pads with some Shimano ones, and they have never squealed since.

 

When the battery is locked into place, there is still some up and down movement of the whole battery casing when travelling over rough ground.
This movement causes friction of the power prongs on the bike, and the contacts on the battery to wear down both parts.
This needs to be addressed, or eventually this will cause poor conductivity from the battery to the controller input.

 

For some reason, one of the power leads on the battery key switch kept coming off.
No matter how well I soldered it back on, it would just eventually come back off again.
I suspect that the terminal that the lead was attached to, was getting very hot, and causing the solder to melt.
Probably wouldn't happen on a stock bike, but my controller is modded and the extra amps drawn may have caused this to happen.
In the end, I bypassed the key switch and just slotted the battery into position to power up.

Just done the first modification and tested it.

I soldered about half the shunt to get more current. This was a very useful cost-free modification, which gives a useful power and speed gain. On our 1 in 4 test hill, I could pedal up in 2nd gear, and in first gear it was a breeze, while as before the mod, I had to pedal as hard as I could in first gear to get to the top. On the flat, the speed had increased from about 15mph to 17 mph. It's difficult to give exact figures because it's difficult to tell what's flat and there was a bit of wind. Here's some results before and after the mod.:

 

Standard

Max current: 12.5amps

Slight/medium hill test max speed 9.7mph

Lap of the block flat out no pedalling: 2mins 30secs

1 in 4 hill test rolling start up hill no pedalling to near stall: 22 paces

 

half of shunt soldered

Max current: 16.5amps

Slight/medium hill test max speed 12.1mph

Lap of the block flat out no pedalling: 2mins 20secs

1 in 4 hill test rolling start up hill no pedalling to near stall: 31 paces

I've now tried it with a 36v battery. I was able to pedal up our 1 in 4 hill in top gear. It now has a top speed of about 20mph on the flat. Now for me it's difficult to keep up with the pedalling. Up to 18mph was OK, but I'd need a larger chain-wheel if I was going to keep it like this. younger riders with a faster cadence would probably be OK. I think this amount of power would be enough for most people. I did a lot of full throttle tests for about 2 mins and repeated short hill tests. Nothing has smoked yet!

Test results:

 

half of shunt soldered plus 36v battery (showing 42v at start)

Max current: 17amps

Slight/medium hill test no pedalling max speed 15.7mph

Lap of the block flat out no pedalling: 2mins 02secs

1 in 4 hill test rolling start up hill no pedalling to near stall: 45 paces

I've now tried it with a 36v battery. I was able to pedal up our 1 in 4 hill in top gear. It now has a top speed of about 20mph on the flat. Now for me it's difficult to keep up with the pedalling. Up to 18mph was OK, but I'd need a larger chain-wheel if I was going to keep it like this. younger riders with a faster cadence would probably be OK. I think this amount of power would be enough for most people. I did a lot of full throttle tests for about 2 mins and repeated short hill tests. Nothing has smoked yet!

Test results:

 

half of shunt soldered plus 36v battery (showing 42v at start)

Max current: 17amps

Slight/medium hill test no pedalling max speed 15.7mph

Lap of the block flat out no pedalling: 2mins 02secs

1 in 4 hill test rolling start up hill no pedalling to near stall: 45 paces

 

Nice to see you carrying out these mods so quickly.

Just to give you a heads up about Beastamatic Mk1.

Originally, I thought that the reason why the bike wasn't powering up properly, was due to the LM317 regulator not working.

I tested it with the 24v battery, to eliminate any concerns that the high voltage was the problem.

With everything connected, the LM317 and 2 adjusting resistors would overheat to smoking point.

Then systematically, I disconnected ancillary parts, throttle, brake cut-off etc, to see if anything was shorting and drawing more than 1.5A from the LM317.

This is the safe maximum working limit of this component.

Disconnected the hub motor plug, near the rear axle, and guess what, the controller burst back into life.

The LED on the circuit board started flashing.

I tested the 5v supply point on the board and it read a nice healthy 5.2v.

LM317 and resistors, mildly warm to the touch.

There is also a 13v feed on the board, and that read healthy too.

Not sure what the 13v is for though

 

So to cut a long story short, I am not going to try to pursue fixing whatever has melted in the hub motor

Many many lessons have been learnt along the way, and I look forward to my next project

Just done the next test. I swapped the controller for the cheapest 36v one from BMSbattery.

KU63 250W 6Mosfets High Speed Controller - BMSBATTERY

and fixed on my 12s lipo pack - nominally 44v but actually 49v.

 

I wasn't able to notice so much difference from the last test. Speed on the flat was a bit more, but I couldn't do the round-the-block test because it's getting too dangerous. I can't understand why it didn't get so far up the hill - must be the way the controller gives the power.

KU63controller plus 44v lops @49v

Max current:20.1amps

Slight/medium hill test max speed 16.1mph

1 in 4 hill test rolling start up hill: 44 paces

 

I think I'll try a longer test tomorrow to see how warm the motor gets before soldering the shunt to get about 25amps. Then I'll call it a day.

I still think that with the standard controller soldered half-way and the 36v battery is the best compromise between durability, climbing power and speed

Interesting on the hill climb bit. Maybe your right that using the higher voltage has changed the power curve in a way it no longer sits nicely on the torque curve but now gereates more heat from the additional watts rather than actual movement.

 

Either way it's good to see your posting. The forums missed you and your antics!

Interesting on the hill climb bit. Maybe your right that using the higher voltage has changed the power curve in a way it no longer sits nicely on the torque curve but now gereates more heat from the additional watts rather than actual movement.

 

Either way it's good to see your posting. The forums missed you and your antics!

Thanks for your kind words.

This is a different controller to the one I used for the other tests, so I suppose anything is possible.

I just took it out for a ride of about 5 miles: It's seriously fast now at 48v and 20amps - I guess like the one in the Youtube video. I reckon I could give yours a run for its money. On the return part of my trip, there's a continuous uphill of two miles - some bits fairly steep. Over the two miles I averaged 16.2 mph and used 2aH with the watt-meter showing about 900watts most of the time. I was in top gear all the time accept when I had to slow down to bypass some steps and tight turns. When I got home, the motor wasn't even warm, but the FET side of the controller was quite hot to touch. I think I can now christen it "The Beastamatic II".

I'm not going to solder the shunt in this controller now because Its got more than enough power. Now I've got the same problem as my other bikes: the pedal sensor is too fierce because the controller just gives full power all the time you're pedalling, so you can't go slow. It has a socket for a three speed switch, but I suspect that, like my other one, the three speed switch only affects the throttle, which is ridiculous. I'll give it a go anyway- just in case.

 

So, if anybody else wants to make a Beastamatic, a pack of 10aH 44v lipos cost about £150 including all the connectors, plus about £20 for a charger, and about £15 for the controller from BMSbattery. - and, of course, a voltmeter to monitor the battery voltage £15. So, that makes a total of about £550, but you have a spare 24v battery and charger that you can sell on Ebay. for about £100.

 

How long it will last is anybody's guess, but obviously not as long as a standard one.

Hats off to you both d8veh and Fordulike - I've got some more modding to do and a 36V battery to buy (I think LiPos seem to be a bit beyond me and require more surveillance)!

Q is what happened to Ford's motor? Why did he get something burned out and not the Youtube bloke (I messaged him and he said he just whacked on a 48V batt with no mods and it's still flying!) or d8veh's? Surely it's not a 'too many watts' issue?

Hats off to you both d8veh and Fordulike - I've got some more modding to do and a 36V battery to buy (I think LiPos seem to be a bit beyond me and require more surveillance)!

Q is what happened to Ford's motor? Why did he get something burned out and not the Youtube bloke (I messaged him and he said he just whacked on a 48V batt with no mods and it's still flying!) or d8veh's? Surely it's not a 'too many watts' issue?

I'm not sure that it's been confirmed that his motor is definitely dead, but if it is, then it's probably amps that killed it. If I remember right, Fordulike soldered his shunt. This is best done with an ammeter on the battery so that you can see the effect. If there's two of you, one can operate the throttle and brake, while the other lifts the back of the bike, otherwise you have to use the throttle and lower the bike until the back tyre is rubbing on the ground to put the motor under load. while like that you can check the amps, gradually adding solder until you get the right amount. My guess is that 20amps is about the maximum for these smaller motors. You have to bear in mind as well that the amps can go up when you increase the voltage, but how much is different for different controllers. Also, Fordulike ran his up a long hill without pedalling. As the motor slows down it starts to make heat rather than motion, so his could have got quite hot, while as I pedalled to keep the speed up and temperature down on mine. Also, it's normally the hall sensors that give problems when you go over temperature, which is not such a problem because you can run the motor again with a sensorless controller.

 

My overall conclusion is that the best upgrade would be a 36v battery, the one that's in the same case as the 24v one. I think this one should fit straight in, but you'd need to check:

.: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :.

Then solder the shunt to get about 17amps and you have a useful gain in speed and power - probably a bit more than most of the ready-made 36v hub motors. If the worst comes to the worst and the controller smokes, then you can fit the slightly larger KU63 controller that nearly fits in the compartment. You'd have to make a replacement cover with a power bulge in it for one side of the compartment. You could just cutaway all the the middle part and use a bit of motorcycle inner tube to stretch out through the window in it. I managed to get two screws in the normal cover, but there were gaps all round - no good if you cycle in the rain.

All very useful... Trouble is I'm likely to use mostly throttle up hills too! Looking for 10% slopes.

I'll measure the batt amps draw as you suggest and get to about 16A with solder - I think I have near that now anyway.

Also get a 36V batt - I want 15AH as I use the throttle mostly so a lot of power used up. Kudos don't do bigger AH size. BMSBatt or maybe these guys electricbike.org.uk who also seem to offer a kind of bespoke service in the UK but unsure if it's LiFePO4 or not (unlikely at that price but the blurb talks about it as if it was) so I've emailed them.

Yes could get a sensorless controller too from BMSBatt if sensors get smoked - good point.