Cube vs Wisper SE

[soundwave]

I spoke to someone last week who had wisper 905se, and I mentioned the ability to swop between cadence and ts modes via the lcd.
not on this model which was about 1k he said.
so what is the difference in moters as regards nm in the wisper range as the 705 torque is 1600 pounds.
the bosch have no throttles I assume the cube is the same.
why do you think the 800 steps is better than cx
I thought bosch and steps were very similar systems

cx is 75nm and 8000 steps is 70nm but you take a gamble with a new motor like the steps but given the price of both will depend if you like it or not.

 

[soundwave]

i cant find a price for a steps motor but given the price of this i dont want to know tbh.imo it will be over 1k as the old one was not far off that.

http://www.pro-cycling-golla.de/Displays_und_Zubehoer/SC-E8000_artikel58b1b7f38acee.html

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I spoke to someone last week who had wisper 905se, and I mentioned the ability to swop between cadence and ts modes via the lcd.
not on this model which was about 1k he said.
so what is the difference in moters as regards nm in the wisper range as the 705 torque is 1600 pounds.
the bosch have no throttles I assume the cube is the same.
why do you think the 800 steps is better than cx
I thought bosch and steps were very similar systems

The Wisper 905 Torque is the one with the high torque motor and the switchable torque sensor. The cheaper one (non-Torque) is completely different, though looks similar.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I spoke to someone last week who had wisper 905se, and I mentioned the ability to swop between cadence and ts modes via the lcd.
not on this model which was about 1k he said.
so what is the difference in moters as regards nm in the wisper range as the 705 torque is 1600 pounds.
the bosch have no throttles I assume the cube is the same.
why do you think the 800 steps is better than cx
I thought bosch and steps were very similar systems

We are building a range of four mountain bikes for next season. We thoroughly tested the CX and 8000 side by side. The 8000 is quieter and more responsive, it also sits on the bike in a better position than the CX allowing for the rear wheel to be bought further under the rider. This makes for a more agile handling performance. Shimano understand cycling, they have had cycling in their blood for decades, their gear systems are tailor made to work in harmony with their e system. Bosch are by comparison very new to the business. There is not a huge difference but in our opinion Shimano have the edge now and will continue to forge ahead.

Suffice to say we could have chosen either but it was unanimous between our tech and sales staff that we go for Shimano.

If anyone is interested, we will be launching four new mountain bikes in the autumn. Two alloy and two carbon. A hard tail and full sus in each. Frame designs are now finished and prototypes are being built.

All said, we have decided to keep the hub motor for our commuter, city and Trekking bikes. We believe they are superior for this use.

Atb

 

[Croxden]

I've never been happy with Shimano, always found them to be cheap and nasty hence going with the Rohloff on the Delite and SRAM with the Haibike.

 

[ncpdnc]

All said, we have decided to keep the hub motor for our commuter, city and Trekking bikes. We believe they are superior for this use.

Atb

As a manufacturer, is mid drives price/control on design part of the equation that led to that decision?
.
When it comes to usability and safety from the consumer POV, which would be rather nice to have, may I ask? Hub gears vs hub motor?
.
I have to confess, I have an irrational fear of derailleurs and the whole clinking & clanking.

 

[Gaz]

I've never been happy with Shimano, always found them to be cheap and nasty.

Blimey, that surprises me. I really like mine. Horses for courses I suppose and one man's meat is another man's poison.

Think I need to try an E8000 though. It's like an itch I can't quite scratch. All part of the disease, and this bloody forum isn't making it any better (Love you really ).

Gaz

 

[Gaz]

I have to confess, I have an irrational fear of derailleurs and the whole clinking & clanking.

Confession accepted. Say three hail Mary's and you can come out of the corner

It's fair to say you can really bang it through the gears, but after the first few times, you really don't want to as it's not mechanically sympathetic, so you adjust your cycling style to hesitate your pedalling at each gear shift. It's not hard and an easy habit to fall into. You'll be fine, it's not something to worry about. If I can do it, anyone can.

Gaz

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I have to confess, I have an irrational fear of derailleurs and the whole clinking & clanking.

That's completely unfounded. Go to any cycling competition event and see what they use. What do they use in the Tour de France? That must be the hardest test of any equipment. Even the 24 hour e-bike endurance race was exclusively derailleur gears. They wouldn't use them for those activities if they didn’t give consistent reliable performance.

Many opinions like yours are based on the cheap systems you get on those £60 bikes, where they never had the time to adjust them properly, and most of their users never took any interest in adjusting them either. Any normal derailleur system, once set correctly (5 minutes work) wil go for thousands of miles without further attention. I didn't even look at mine in 3 years.

 

[Woosh]

Bosch are by comparison very new to the business.

would they allow you to send their motors to China for assembly though?

 

[Woosh]

and most of their users never took any interest in adjusting them either.

it's the same on more expensive bikes.
you have the new 'remote control' generation which expects everything to work.
It's up to the vendors to deliver these features.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

would they allow you to send their motors to China for assembly though?

Apparently yes, we have to buy through an agent, but we are also considering finishing the bikes in Kent.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Regarding gear sets, we would love to have a Rohloff version but the price would be prohibitive. Shimano gear sets are in our opinion superb, even the mid range sets used on our Wisper city and tracking bikes are excellent. We never have any issues. As long as there are properly adjusted they are better to ride than hub gears, (Rolloff apart). Our mountain bikes will feature higher 10 speed sets. Of course all this will be reflected in the price!

Our new GSM Jeremy used to race mountain bikes for Team GB and one of our tech guys Andrew still competes but not on a national level. They are getting very technical (way beyond me!) and every component has been agonised over. They would really only consider a Shimano derailleure system for this application, although there was some talk earlier of using a new gear set from Sram specifically designed for eMTB.

We are all very excited.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

As a manufacturer, is mid drives price/control on design part of the equation that led to that decision?
.
When it comes to usability and safety from the consumer POV, which would be rather nice to have, may I ask? Hub gears vs hub motor?
.
I have to confess, I have an irrational fear of derailleurs and the whole clinking & clanking.

Price is important but there is almost nothing between the 8000 and the XT, having sold Bosch powered bikes for more than four years we were very much into the Bosch system, and our new GSM Jeremy worked for Magura selling Bosch systems until he joined us six months ago. Although we were definitely leaning towards Bosch, as this was an important choice, one we have to live with for a long time, we were more interested in choosing the best motor with the best support structure for the job. For many reasons Shimano MTB8000 was the unanimous choice.

We believe for usability the hub motor is better for City and Trekking bikes, lower maintenance costs, quiet and efficient. The Crank motor is better for mountain biking, running the power through the gear system and on the whole mountain bikers maintain their bikes, are more tech savvy and don't mind changing chains and gear sets when needed. Regarding safety there is really no difference.

Don't worry about the clinking and clanking, a properly adjusted derailleur set is superb.

All the best, David

 

[Crockers]

We are building a range of four mountain bikes for next season. We thoroughly tested the CX and 8000 side by side. The 8000 is quieter and more responsive, it also sits on the bike in a better position than the CX allowing for the rear wheel to be bought further under the rider. This makes for a more agile handling performance. Shimano understand cycling, they have had cycling in their blood for decades, their gear systems are tailor made to work in harmony with their e system. Bosch are by comparison very new to the business. There is not a huge difference but in our opinion Shimano have the edge now and will continue to forge ahead.

Suffice to say we could have chosen either but it was unanimous between our tech and sales staff that we go for Shimano.

If anyone is interested, we will be launching four new mountain bikes in the autumn. Two alloy and two carbon. A hard tail and full sus in each. Frame designs are now finished and prototypes are being built.

All said, we have decided to keep the hub motor for our commuter, city and Trekking bikes. We believe they are superior for this use.

Atb

David

Are you saying you're going the STePs route? Or did you just test them?

Two bikes going that route, the Wallerang and the Volt Infinity are using Shimano throughout..but that's a trekking route..

I really like my old ancient Wisper and thought the Torque when I tested it was great.

My only gripe is I'm not over keen on rack batteries albeit that's better than my behind the downtube one.

Still trying to find a date to get my wife down to you to test the bikes. May have to be July as we're off to Iceland for a week soon.

 

[spinellino]

A really high end manufacturer like BMC is about to debut the eMTB scene and they chose Shimano for their motors. I guess they have to be good!

 

[footpump]

slightly off topic I went to a giant dealer looking at there mtbs ebikes and was told 400w and 500w batteries cost £400 and £500 to replace.
the bosch batteries seem to be a ridiculus price.
having learnt that magura make bosch batteries and other bits.
is this part of the decision to go with shimano? set up , how much is steps 500w battery in comparison to bosch.
and the fact bosch is bringing out some new moters activeline and plus
I assume the 8000 mentioned is the steps e8000 system

 

[chris_n]

Price is important but there is almost nothing between the 8000 and the XT, having sold Bosch powered bikes for more than four years we were very much into the Bosch system, and our new GSM Jeremy worked for Magura selling Bosch systems until he joined us six months ago. Although we were definitely leaning towards Bosch, as this was an important choice, one we have to live with for a long time, we were more interested in choosing the best motor with the best support structure for the job. For many reasons Shimano MTB8000 was the unanimous choice.

We believe for usability the hub motor is better for City and Trekking bikes, lower maintenance costs, quiet and efficient. The Crank motor is better for mountain biking, running the power through the gear system and on the whole mountain bikers maintain their bikes, are more tech savvy and don't mind changing chains and gear sets when needed. Regarding safety there is really no difference.

Don't worry about the clinking and clanking, a properly adjusted derailleur set is superb.

All the best, David

If you want some testing done in the Alps by a 50 something typical (for this region) where 50% of the bikes I see are eMTB's then I'm your man!