Cube 250 BOSCH motor with 50 nm - Flash possible?

[huggins]

Hi can anyone advise if this motor can be flashed to get more top speed / power please and what the procedure would be? any downside aside from the borderline legality issues?

I'm tempted by one of these for the owners reviews on here but the motor and torque seems a little wimpy? As I live in a moderatley hilly area.

Regards Huggins

 

[sjpt]

You are unlikely to get more power ... it probably peaks somewhere around 500w? Nothing borderline about the legality of higher top assisted speed. Another downside might be warranty issues; and I understand from other posts that the more modern Bosch systems are getting more complicated to dongle.

 

[huggins]

Thanks for the reply sjpt - Is 250w with 50nm likely to be enough for most "average fitness" users? Am I getting hung up on the headline power and torque figures? seem to be widely used motors but then I don't want to buy and feel short changed / wish i'd spent abit more and got more oomph etc

 

[Deleted member 25121]

It's not practical to re-flash Bosch equipment, however there is the option to fit a device (sometimes called a dongle) that fools the controller into thinking that it's going slower and thereby raising the assisted speed limit above 15mph.

That wouldn't raise torque though, just maximum assisted speed.

I suggest you arrange for some test rides on bikes with hub motors and mid mounted motors to get a feeling for what you're looking for. It's all rather more subjective than looking at power and torque figures with cars.

 

[sjpt]

Most legal motors are nominally 250w and peak somewhere around 400 to 600w (there are lots of people here with more detailed knowledge who might refine or correct that), Torque is really critical for hub motors to be used on hills. It is much less relevant on crank drive motors as they drive through the gears; actually I am not sure exactly what the torque figure quoted on crank drives refers to.

Do you have any chance of a test ride on the 'real' hills around you? eg Halford's Crossfuse, Halfords easily arrange 1/2 hour test ride and some can do a 2 day one I think. Whoops, just noticed the Crossfuse has the lower rated Active Line (40mn), not the 50mn Plus.

The hills around here (Winchester) are fairly mild, but I (90kg, moderately fit 72 year old) have not had any problem getting up them with our older Active Line Raleigh Motus Hub gear; nominally 43nm I think, and not specially low low gear.

 

[Nealh]

250w motors and their wattage output is dependant on the controller amps and the battery being able to supply the power asked.
12 - 17a is the range of likely controllers to be found in use and occasionally 20a, if you use 48v then power output can be up in the high 100's in high power mode.

 

[huggins]

Thanks for all the replies - i'm torn between a cube with the 50 nm bosch or a Giant with the Giant SyncDrive Sport, 80Nm powered by YAMAHA . Do you think in the real world I'll notice much of a difference between the 2? Leaning towards the cube as lots of positive reviews of the build on this forum etc.

 

[vfr400]

Bosch batteries are cheaper, more available and anecdotally more reliable.

 

[Wicky]

As mentioned arrange a test ride to get a feel for the performance in real world conditions. A few years back with the aim of buying a pedelec with hill climbing torque as main priority over speed, I had some test rides with various bikes at Redbridge cycle track and found a KTM eRace hub drive offered the best performance (but they no longer make the model).

 

[Fishy]

Before buying my bike, I test rode all the Bosch motors, luckily, there were some very steep hills close to the dealer, so was able to test hill climbing ability on all variants. There's no doubt that the CX with 75nm, gave the most help up hills, but I was pleasantly surprised by the 'push' on a 2018 active line motor, (40 nm I think). Anyway, if you're moderately fit, and used to cycling, I think 50nm would be fine, but as has been said, there's no substitute for a proper test ride.

 

[Philip Copley]

Hi Huggins, I wouldn't class myself as fit. I went up Mam Tor in Derbyshire out the back of Edale a few weeks ago on an active line plus 50nm torque on a Cube Acid Hybrid One with more road worthy tyres on it. I went up fine and weigh approx 120kg. They're certainly capable of climbing and the motor didn't burn up/complain etc. The new 2020 motors offer 60nm of torque as opposed to the 50 mine has and i believe a better disconnect once you're pedalling over the 15.5mph assist limit so you don't feel as much "drag". Regards, Phil.

 

[Andy McNish]

I didn't think the Activeline Plus motors were getting a 2020 update? The only changes to the Bosch motor line up were the new Performance Line motors (replacements for the old CX series) no?

I did a 100km Sportive on my fully laden Cube with an ALP this Summer. Getting up steep hills isn't really an issue even if you are overweight and not that fit, so long as you take them slow and steady. I didn't even need to be in the lowest gear or highest assist mode for Werneth Low (15%).

 

[Philip Copley]

These are the specs from Cube's website:-

• FRAMEHPA, High Performance Aluminium
• FORKSR Suntour XCM ATB Coil, 100mm
• REAR DERAILLEURShimano Deore, 11-36T, 1x9
• BRAKE SYSTEMShimano BR-MT200
• CRANKSETFSA CK-602, 38T
• COLOURblue´n´orange
• BATTERYPowerPack 500
• DRIVE UNITBosch Drive Unit Performance GEN3 (65Nm)
• DISPLAYPurion
• CHARGER2A
• WEIGHT22,1 kg
• ART. NO333111
• PRICE1899 GBP
• I don't know if it's an update for 2020 but certainly more powerful than the 2018 model being only 10nm of torque lower than the cx motor. Actually 65nm of torque, approximately 30% more than my 2018 model. But obviously, this comes at a cost of battery life if you use it.

 

[Andy McNish]

Yes but OP said we was torn between a Yamaha powered bike and one with a Bosch 50nm torque, so I had assumed he is talking about an ALP motor.

The new Performance Line isn't an upgrade on the ALP, it's an upgrade on the older Performance Line motors. And bikes using it are considerably more expensive than the ALP ones usually.

 

[Philip Copley]

Yes, the 2020 version of the Cube acid hybrid one bike uses the performance motor @ £1899. My mistake, sorry. It's not an upgrade to the ALP, just a better motor??? As above. Link to a LBS that sells them. JE James - https://www.jejamescycles.com/cube-acid-hybrid-one-500-electric-bike-2020.html regards, Phil.