Crystalyte hub kit on tandem

[jimriley]

My Double Vision Recumbent tandem has arrived, had a play with it today.
It has a crystalyte 36v front hub, 9ah soft pack battery, twist throttle with battery indicator. It's quite an old kit.
No markings on the case, having looked at the website it's probably a SAW 400 4012 or similar, with lower speed and higher torque. The throttle is a bit loose and is triggering with a slight nudge. I might see if I can strip it down and fettle it, there is one on the website but no purchase option.
Has anyone any experience of this kit or maker, UK supplier? The only markings are v-fiets.com labels on the hub and the controller. Defunct Dutch website.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

My Double Vision Recumbent tandem has arrived, had a play with it today.
It has a crystalyte 36v front hub, 9ah soft pack battery, twist throttle with battery indicator. It's quite an old kit.
No markings on the case, having looked at the website it's probably a SAW 400 4012 or similar, with lower speed and higher torque. The throttle is a bit loose and is triggering with a slight nudge. I might see if I can strip it down and fettle it, there is one on the website but no purchase option.
Has anyone any experience of this kit or maker, UK supplier? The only markings are v-fiets.com labels on the hub and the controller. Defunct Dutch website.

It's great that you've finally received your Vision! Have you both been out on it yet?

Best bet might be ebay? For odd or rare:

72v Half Twist (1/2) THROTTLE Electric Bike Ebike Scooter e-bike Crystalyte BMC | eBay

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E bike 8-pin R half throttle PAS Cruise for Infineon BMC.MAC.Crystalyte Motors | eBay

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Elektro Fahrrad Gasgriff Crystalyte RE-48V-TWF Full Twist Grip Regulator 48Volt | eBay

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Pardon our interruption...

 

[jimriley]

Thanks for the links Penty, it's 36v with a 3 light battery level indicator built in.
I need to get fully competent myself before swmbo gets aboard. Wouldn't do to drop her. I did about a mile yesterday on a quiet local lane. The under seat steering is very different. The book says Look ahead and relax! Which is what I tell people learning to ride a unicycle*. Different matter when you are the victim!

*Strangely enough, I've just been to the shops by canal towpath with the ebike and dog trailer, met a young lad struggling to ride a unicycle, so stopped, had a chat and gave him some tips.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

Thanks for the links Penty, it's 36v with a 3 light battery level indicator built in.
I need to get fully competent myself before swmbo gets aboard. Wouldn't do to drop her. I did about a mile yesterday on a quiet local lane. The under seat steering is very different. The book says Look ahead and relax! Which is what I tell people learning to ride a unicycle*. Different matter when you are the victim!

*Strangely enough, I've just been to the shops by canal towpath with the ebike and dog trailer, met a young lad struggling to ride a unicycle, so stopped, had a chat and gave him some tips.

Would crystalyte let you order by phone? They seem pretty rare:

36v Right Side E-Bike Thumb Throttle

High quality, right side 36V thumb throttle with 4 pin male JST connector. Features: - Ergonomic thumb tab for less thumb fatigue -Plug and play BMC controller compatibility (swap ground and signal wire for Crystalyte) - 36V battery indicator

hpcbikes.com

What a magical life you lead! I've tried neither uni nor recumb, but an electric unicycle sounds alarming.

 

[jimriley]

Would crystalyte let you order by phone? They seem pretty rare:

36v Right Side E-Bike Thumb Throttle

High quality, right side 36V thumb throttle with 4 pin male JST connector. Features: - Ergonomic thumb tab for less thumb fatigue -Plug and play BMC controller compatibility (swap ground and signal wire for Crystalyte) - 36V battery indicator

hpcbikes.com

What a magical life you lead! I've tried neither uni nor recumb, but an electric unicycle sounds alarming.

I've emailed them about the throttle. If that is all there is I can use it.
I believe there is such a thing as an electric unicycle, never seen or tried one. I've seen a little elec monowheel, the guy had his wrists bandaged.!
I've taught and performed circus for years, set up a charity in Rochdale, www.skylightcircusarts.com , I'm now chair of the board of trustees.
Still do the odd bit , stiltwalking, shows etc, but nothing since lockdown. It's definitely been better than working for a living!

 

[vfr400]

All throttles work the same, though you can get a range of additional features, like battery displays, switches for lights and other things, locks and speed display. You don't need a special Crystalite one. If you're not sure about it, show which one you have so that we can make recommendations.

If your problem is that the power algorithms in the controller are what you don't like, changing the throttle won't make a difference. They all give out the same signal unless broken.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

I've emailed them about the throttle. If that is all there is I can use it.
I believe there is such a thing as an electric unicycle, never seen or tried one. I've seen a little elec monowheel, the guy had his wrists bandaged.!
I've taught and performed circus for years, set up a charity in Rochdale, www.skylightcircusarts.com , I'm now chair of the board of trustees.
Still do the odd bit , stiltwalking, shows etc, but nothing since lockdown. It's definitely been better than working for a living!

Bikers of all types would be safer colliding with a car, if monowheels were much bigger or had much thicker tyres, and could roll over them:

The circus world seems to be a small one and I hesitate to mention if you know or knew someone, that I knew years ago. Your charity is doing some very interesting work. It looks rewarding. It's brilliant when you can do something nice plus make a living, and very rare.

 

[jimriley]

All throttles work the same, though you can get a range of additional features, like battery displays, switches for lights and other things, locks and speed display. You don't need a special Crystalite one. If you're not sure about it, show which one you have so that we can make recommendations.

If your problem is that the power algorithms in the controller are what you don't like, changing the throttle won't make a difference. They all give out the same signal unless broken.

Here's a pic , power seems ok, just a dodgy throttle. Will see where I get to with the thumb throttle I mentioned earlier. I'd prefer a thumb throttle.
For the future would I be able to use a new controller and screen etc with that motor. No label on it, seems about the same as my bbs01.

 

[vfr400]

One like this should work if you have room for it:

12V/24V/36V/48V/60V/72V Throttle Ebike With Battery Power Display Thumb Gs1DIH2 | eBay

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These ones too:

New 36V Speed Control Twist Thumb Throttle Assembly For E-bike Electric 165cm | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for New 36V Speed Control Twist Thumb Throttle Assembly For E-bike Electric 165cm at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

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or you can get any throttle you want and use a voltmeter to show your battery level:

Electric Bike Throttle Shifter Thumb Throttle Grip Accelerator Accessories _wk | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Electric Bike Throttle Shifter Thumb Throttle Grip Accelerator Accessories _wk at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[jimriley]

One like this should work if you have room for it:

12V/24V/36V/48V/60V/72V Throttle Ebike With Battery Power Display Thumb Gs1DIH2 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 12V/24V/36V/48V/60V/72V Throttle Ebike With Battery Power Display Thumb Gs1DIH2 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

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These ones too:

New 36V Speed Control Twist Thumb Throttle Assembly For E-bike Electric 165cm | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for New 36V Speed Control Twist Thumb Throttle Assembly For E-bike Electric 165cm at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

or you can get any throttle you want and use a voltmeter to show your battery level:

Electric Bike Throttle Shifter Thumb Throttle Grip Accelerator Accessories _wk | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Electric Bike Throttle Shifter Thumb Throttle Grip Accelerator Accessories _wk at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

Thanks, I like the one with the display, gives a better idea of capacity.

 

[vfr400]

Thanks, I like the one with the display, gives a better idea of capacity.

Make sure there's room for it regarding the shifters and brake.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

Thanks, I like the one with the display, gives a better idea of capacity.

Make sure there's room for it regarding the shifters and brake.

You could hang a bag containing sandwiches, plus a unicycle (for emergencies and impromptu performances) off a handlebar extension? (check diameter):

Gbrand Bike Handlebar Extender, Double Frames Bicycle Handle Extension Bracket, 20cm Long Tube Extra Space Fit for Handlebar with Diameter 25.4 to 31.8mm : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

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[jimriley]

Had a better look and test yesterday, I put the front end up on an axle stand to test the PAS. It's not working. There is a PAS switch on the side of the controller, has no effect. So I propose to check the wiring. All the wires from the controller are labelled.
The PAS has 3 wires, +ve -Ve and signal - presume that's the green one. So it test power supply out of controller, then continuity between +ve and Sig on the return should operate as pas sensor is rotated? I don't know if I can get into the controller box to test the switch.
Looking at the worst, it might be better to get a new controller and screen that I can then programme etc. There is a proprietary data connector on the controller but not much use I f I cant connect.
I don't know for certain what the motor is rated at, but there are 3 mosfet wires and +ve and -ve going to it. Would the KT and lishui combination work, seen them recommended on other threads. I'd prefer more control over the system anyway.

any thoughts welcome.

 

[vfr400]

Rather than replacing random parts, it would be better to do some tests and measurements to find out what's wrong. If there's no clicking, humming or movement of the motor of any sort do the tests below 1 to 5, otherwise check that the motor connector is all the way in, there's no damage to the cable, especially where it comes out of the axle, and then do a mosfet test:

1. Measure the voltage at controller's battery connector. Obviously should be battery voltage. 36v - 42v for a 36v battery would be an acceptable range.
2. Measure the voltage on the 5v rail. You can measure that between any ground (black) and any of the reds going to throttle, PAS or motor halls. It should be around 5v.
3. Check throttle signal wire, which is the one that's not red or black. Should give about 1v to 4v when you twist the throttle. If there's more than one wire, your meter will find it. It's the one that's between 1v and 4v, assuming that it works.
4. Check that the PAS is pulsing. Measure the PAS signal wire while turning the pedals slowly. Should pulse 5v on and off every time a magnet passes the sensor. the signal wire is the one that's not red or black.
5. Check the motor hall signal wires (blue green and yellow) on the connector at the controller. They should each pulse with 5v going on and off as you rotate the wheel BACKWARDS.

6. Mosfet test. Disconnect the motor cable and battery from the controller. measure the resistance (200k scale) between the red battery connection and each of the three phase wire connections, then repeat with the black battert wire. eack set of 3 readings should be the same as each other and in the range 7K -22K. Though can be higher as long as they're all the same. Due to the capacitor across the battery wire, you can get a constantantly changing measurement while it charges. In that case, try swapping your probes round. Even though can be a moving result, the only important thing is that all three move in a similar way.

If your bike passes all those tests, it should work, so then you can look at any settings or other logical causes, like stuck brake switches, PAS installed backwards.

When checking whether the motor will work, always disconnect all unessential connectors, like PAS (if you have a throttle). lights and brakes.

 

[jimriley]

The motor works fine with the throttle, the problem with the throttle is that it is worn, when twisted to 'off' it triggers with the slightest nudge. Hence the need to change it.
The LHM 3 speed switch works, can feel the difference with the throttle.
Pas isn't working, there's a switch on the controller that makes no difference. So am proposing to check 5v on line out, does switch turn it on and off? Then check Pas sensor output, can that be done with sensor disconnected, as I described in last post? If not how do I test the Pas sensor.
I don't intend to change anything yet, just thinking around it.

 

[vfr400]

Test the PAS while connected and switched on.

 

[jimriley]

Thanks will try that.

 

[jimriley]

Had a look , first thing, the little Pas switch was broken, so opened up the case. Then tested with wires connected and without, made no difference to the readings.
3 wires to Pas sensor, brown, black and blue.
Black brown 4.8
Black blue 12.7
Brown blue 7.8

It has a 5 magnet Pas sensor ring. No change to any readings when I rotate the crank.

 

[vfr400]

There's no way to get any voltage on the PAS when it's disconnected, as it has no power supplied to it. There's either something wrong with your measurement or your meter, or do you mean that you measured the connector on the controller with the PAS disconnected?

Try removing the blue pin from the PAS connector block by depressing the barb in the side, where you can see metal strips, then meaure between it and ground while you rotate the crank very slowly.

The 4.8v between brown and black is correct. The signal output from the PAS hall sensor cannot be higher than that because it's only a magnetically operated switch. If you are indeed measuring 12.7v on the contoller's pin connected to the blue wire, that might not be a real voltage. It might be just some leakage charge.

The test above will verify whether the hall is switching. that's the first thing you need to determine. After that, you can figure out where the 12.7v is coming from.

 

[jimriley]

There's no way to get any voltage on the PAS when it's disconnected, as it has no power supplied to it. There's either something wrong with your measurement or your meter, or do you mean that you measured the connector on the controller with the PAS disconnected?

Try removing the blue pin from the PAS connector block by depressing the barb in the side, where you can see metal strips, then meaure between it and ground while you rotate the crank very slowly.

The 4.8v between brown and black is correct. The signal output from the PAS hall sensor cannot be higher than that because it's only a magnetically operated switch. If you are indeed measuring 12.7v on the contoller's pin connected to the blue wire, that might not be a real voltage. It might be just some leakage charge.

The test above will verify whether the hall is switching. that's the first thing you need to determine. After that, you can figure out where the 12.7v is coming from.

I did measure with it connected, poked the probe down the side of the wire. I will do as you suggest.
It's a new meter.