Crossfire Or Kudos Tourer D9

[jonjoe]

Hi peeps,

I'm new to the forum. I'm looking at the two bikes above. I really like the Kudos due to style and the extras supplied, mudguards, lights, rack, panniers. The Crossfire appears to come with wheels and a longer battery life.

Any opinions on the LiFePO4 battery on the Kudos? Also, there only appears to be 1.4 amp difference in the batteries would this really make the difference in range between the two bikes, the Kudos is around 25 to 30 and the Crossfire around 50 miles.

The bike will mainly be used for a a 4 mile round trip commute and a 20 - 25m leisure ride once a week, which I currently do on a Carrera Subway but the hills are killing me. I'm 17.5 stone.

Cheers

 

[redcup1999]

Hi peeps,

I'm new to the forum. I'm looking at the two bikes above. I really like the Kudos due to style and the extras supplied, mudguards, lights, rack, panniers. The Crossfire appears to come with wheels and a longer battery life.

Any opinions on the LiFePO4 battery on the Kudos? Also, there only appears to be 1.4 amp difference in the batteries would this really make the difference in range between the two bikes, the Kudos is around 25 to 30 and the Crossfire around 50 miles.

The bike will mainly be used for a a 4 mile round trip commute and a 20 - 25m leisure ride once a week, which I currently do on a Carrera Subway but the hills are killing me. I'm 17.5 stone.

Cheers

I think it's a little unfair to compare the two bikes as there is a substantial difference in the retail price.

At your weight, I would suggest that the Crossfire-e would cope with your usage a little better, although you should bear in mind that in reviews of the Crossfire-e a significant number of people have had issues with the bike cutting out - not a huge problem, but something else to add to the mix. It is unlikely you will get 50 miles from the Crossfire. I used to get 40 out of mine. My GF gets just over 30 out of hers.

It would probably be more fair to compare the Crossfire-e to something like the Kudos Tornado which has a more powerful Rear Hub motor than the Tourer.

Ultimately you need to ride both to decide.
The Suntour Torque Sensor system in the Crossfire is excellent and provides a natural riding sensation.
The Tornado uses PAS and has a throttle which can be an excellent help in providing more power to get you up the hills.

 

[jonjoe]

Thanks for the reply, the Tornado looks good and looks play a very important part for me, but it's more of a mountain bike, I prefer the riding style of a hybrid which my current Subway is.

 

[redcup1999]

Thanks for the reply, the Tornado looks good and looks play a very important part for me, but it's more of a mountain bike, I prefer the riding style of a hybrid which my current Subway is.

Understood.

You may want to let us know your height and general fitness level as well so we can give you some more ideas.

Also do you want the ride to be relaxing with minimal effort or like riding a normal bike but faster up the hills?

 

[jonjoe]

Height 5'11" quite fit, a little overweight but built like the side of a barn, can do a 25 mile ride on normal bike and only struggle with the hills, when I don't ride to work I walk, 2 miles each way. I prefer being more upright with straight legs when riding.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Kudos battery will last forever (more or less), the Crossfire one will last about 1/4 as long. That's life, not range.

I just did some repairs to an old Kudos Safari a couple of weeks ago. I tested the battery, and it did 126 minutes at 5 amps, which is 10.5 amp-hours. That's more than the Crossfire's optimistic 10.4Ah and not bad for three years of abuse. The most surprising thing for me was its climbing power. I 'm pretty sure that the Tourer has identical battery, controller and motor, so should be the same.

The one big advantage of the Tourer is that it uses standard easy to get Chinese electrics, so very cheap and easy to repair. The Crossfire has a special torque/cadence sensor, which puts you in the hands of Halfords for repairing and spares. I can imagine that it would be very difficult to get hold of one in about 4 years time, and already we've seen a couple that needed replacing.

 

[Woosh]

LiFePO4 batteries have lower internal impedance, that may explain its better climbing ability against the Crossfire.

 

[footpump]

hi jonjoe
I have kudos vita uno26" mtb 10.4ah bottlebattery (think its lifep04) 3 years old 4k battery is waning a bit, 3 levels of assist easy to ride speed sensor model.

I'm 68 15stone and the bike has to do the work.

I also have carreara subway1 fitted with mid drive moter front chainring 42t 27.5 tyres 10.4 ah battery torque sensor range 35-38miles but harder work for me compared to speed sensor.

have specialised sirrus with rear wheel kit 700x28 wheels rolls nice and easy so easy to use on the flat.

theres more choice now than 3 years ago, the tourer to me seems heavy at 26.5 kg and has v brakes? and rear rack battery.
something like new woosh rio mtb lighter /bigger battery/hydraulic brakes/

has front suspention with lockout, its easy to add a rear rack about £25
more fun on canal paths

 

[Deleted member 4366]

hi jonjoe
I have kudos vita uno26" mtb 10.4ah bottlebattery (think its lifep04)

It's not LiFePO4, which is why it's waning.

 

[jonjoe]

Cheers for the responses, I like the sound of the LiFeP04 and don't understand why more manufacturers don't use them, they must have some downsides? I do like the Kudos tourer as it's my style of ride, but as footpump mentions, I'm a little worried about the V brakes, being a large unit I take some stopping once I get going, especially down hill. Though I never had a problem on my old style racer in the 80's. Any thoughts on them?

 

[Woosh]

we did use LiFePO4 Lithium Iron Phosphate battery (AKA LiFe) back in 2011 and I can attest to their longevity and high output when climbing hills. LiFePO4 is also a much safer battery chemistry..
However, they have too many issues when considered for e-bike application.
Most customers want as much battery capacity as possible. You have to use 12 LiFe cells in place of 10 Lithium-ion cells because LiFe cell's voltage is lower. Your battery is thus typically 20% heavier and more expensive.
When you consider that the cost of the battery constitutes one third of the cost of the bike, it is difficult to make an economic case for LiFePO4.
The only place for LiFePO4 in e-bike is for smaller capacity, fast charging batteries in applications like public rental bikes where high charging current, high discharging current and longevity are more important.
NB: you should not use Lithium ion chargers to recharge LiFePO4 and vice versa. They are not 100% compatible.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Cheers for the responses, I like the sound of the LiFeP04 and don't understand why more manufacturers don't use them, they must have some downsides? I do like the Kudos tourer as it's my style of ride, but as footpump mentions, I'm a little worried about the V brakes, being a large unit I take some stopping once I get going, especially down hill. Though I never had a problem on my old style racer in the 80's. Any thoughts on them?

I'll make it simple. The downside is weight, which is the last thing you want on a bicycle.

That Kudos 10Ah battery weighs 4kg. A modern 10Ah one would weigh 2kg, although most batteries now are higher capacity, say 14Ah, at about 3kg.

That means that modern batteries give about double the capacity for the same weight or half the weight for the same capacity.

A modern battery lasts about 3 years of frequent use. By that time, there'll be new batteries that are so much better.

 

[jonjoe]

Cheers d8veh / Woosh I get it now, the Kudos is a cheaper bike but is heavier due to the battery type (although I do like the style and extra's). It's weight is 26kg, does anyone know the weight of the Crossfire, Halfords don't seem to publish the weight of their bikes.

Woosh, I do like the spec of your Bali, but the frame and ride position seems to low for me.

 

[Woosh]

Woosh, I do like the spec of your Bali, but the frame and ride position seems to low for me.

Thank you jonjoe.
I think the Bali may be slightly bigger/longer than the Tourer, although on wheel size, the Tourer has 700C tyres and the Bali 650B.
Our Karoo has 700C wheels and if I put the Karoo and the Bali side by side, the Bali looks bigger and certainly is longer. The Karoo can also be delivered with full size mudguards and rack if you wish.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?karoo

 

[jonjoe]

What is your weight limit based on, is it for the frame or motor and electrics? The Karoo has a limit of 16 stone, I'm 17.5.

Cheers

 

[Woosh]

the limit is based mainly on acceleration (motor).
It's only advisory.

 

[redcup1999]

"jonjoe, post: 367149, member: 19849"does anyone know the weight of the Crossfire, Halfords don't seem to publish the weight of their bikes.

I would get you the weight of mine, but it went back for a refund due to Electrical Gremlins.
I would weigh my GFs, but it is currently off for repair (won't power up).

 

[Woosh]

Red, would you mind tell us how many miles have you done on the Carrera Crossfires?

 

[redcup1999]

Red, would you mind tell us how many miles have you done on the Carrera Crossfires?

I did 530.4 miles in total on my Crossfire-e.
My GF has done around 600 miles on hers so far.

Both bikes used in all weathers.

 

[jonjoe]

Cheers, I've read a lot at forums about the Crossfire, a lot of people love em, but I keep reading about the cut out problem and recently about the spokes, that said there are many reviews on Halfords site with an average of 93% which is not bad.