Crank drive info please

[stevew]

Been riding a Giant Lafee Twist Lite (old panasonic crank drive) for a good few years now. Thinking that i may like to get another newer bike so after having a look around i was wondering if anyone can succinctly explain the differences between the current crank drive systems on the market.
Seems we have Bosch, Panasonic, and Kalkhoff. It's not possible to get a realistic comparison from a dealer 'cos the Kalkhoff seems to be sold by the distributor
I'm an active cyclist and love my non assisted bikes but i have used the Giant a lot for towing a trailer with my tools in. Would sort of like to continue to do that with the new bike but it would be rather nice if it could also be used for the long country rides that i used to do when i was fitter and younger
If one bike won't do both i'll keep both bikes !!
Bikes i have been looking at are the;-
Kalkhoff Pro connect impulse 9
KTM Macina Cross (either hub or derailleur)
Momentum, Upstart (i realise this is a hub motor but i do like the minimalistic styling !)
Anything else i should be looking at ? Remember i'm coming from a cyclist's background so nothing to moped-ish as i already have a Honda Cub

 

[Emo Rider]

I had a test ride on one of Hiabike's new Yamaha powered crank drives. It was amazing. I have a panasonic BH and there was no comparison. I am now saving earnestly in anticipation of a new Sduro Hard Seven.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

As a brand that uses multiple drive systems, including 3 crank drive, (bosch / panasonicand shimano) we can be fairly unbiased really.

I suspect haibike say similar things if you ask them about bosch / yamaha.

There isn't a definitive answer as to which is best. If there was we'd all use it. There are good reasons why there are options and there are pros and cons to each system that are different for each individual.Also don't forget a bike is a total sum of parts, not just a drive.

If your looking at quality brands you won't buy a bad bike really, you could just buy the wrong one. You'll never know if you're about to buy the wrong one until you try a few.

Key first question is:

What do you want to use the bike for?

 

[EddiePJ]

Steve, in the scheme of things, you aren't so far away from either myself or http://londonelectricbike.com/.
You are more than welcome to pop down my way and try my Bosch crank drive bike out if you wanted, or probably simpler and better, pop along to LBC and try a few bikes out.

 

[stevew]

Hi KTM,

Was recommended your Ebike by a dealer really want one of your big 990cc adventure bikes !!

Seriously....I want a bike that is as much like my unassisted bicycle as possible with a good range for cycle touring type stuff. 60 miles would be good 80 miles would be brill, 100 miles and I'd be ecstatic . Happy to put in a fair amount of effort myself but less than i would have un-assisted

At the moment my favorite bike is a single speed track frame with straight bars, minimalistic is what i like. But with a 64" gear it kills me up hills.

Hear you may have a new road style Ebike appearing soon??

Like the brand KTM as it means something to me as a motorcyclist too

Eddie,

Thanks for the offer, I'm due down in your neck of the woods some time in the next week i think but am i right in thinking yours is a MTB?
If so it isn't really going to help much as i generally find that i don't like how MTBs ride on the road. Sure we'll meet some time!

 

[EddiePJ]

Steve,

It doesn't really sound as though trying my bike would benefit you. The current gearing would have you spinning out at approx. 25mph max, and I have swapped out for some quite aggressive tyres.

If you are down this way, I'd happily chat through the motor and gearing options with you though.

 

[barrycoll]

You are very similar to myself Steve....I enjoy unpowered, as well as powered, and on a recent country ride with my wife, I was quite happy to ride my KTM Macina Race for 30+ miles without touching the power once....while my wife was happy with her KTM Macina Cross running her battery down...
On the other hand, yesterday I had a phone call that required a quick as poss trip into central London, and the KTM + Sport setting, and absolute full welly from me, got me there in less than 25 mins...AND great fun!

My advice would be is get the bike with best components, as then it feels most similar to a normal road bike....I occasionally take out my ancient Mercian hand made touring bike, and it feels great too, but only as long as my 74 year old pins have got some fire power left in them......the Macina Race always has Plan B in reserve if I get down to empty

 

[stevew]

Deffo don't want a MTB type thingy. That's why i like the Momentum Upstart but i'm not sure about the drive system. Think the torque sensor is a bit unsophisticated, anyone know more about it?

 

[RobF]

A FreeGo Raptor might suit:

http://freegoelectricbikes.com/electric-bikes/FreeGoBike/freego-raptor

 

[stevew]

Had a look at that but discounted it because of it's limited range even with the two batteries.
The latest sophisticated crank drive bikes seem to have the best range, 60 miles plus in some cases..............................really?

 

[Emo Rider]

A FreeGo Raptor might suit:

http://freegoelectricbikes.com/electric-bikes/FreeGoBike/freego-raptor

Not my cup of tea but a brilliant bike to ride with or without power. The price at £799 is right as well.

 

[RobF]

Had a look at that but discounted it because of it's limited range even with the two batteries.
The latest sophisticated crank drive bikes seem to have the best range, 60 miles plus in some cases..............................really?

Sixty miles means a 15ah or more battery which means weight and bulk.

What you seek does not exist, nor will it for the foreseeable future.

You can have light(ish) weight or range, you cannot have both.

 

[Artstu]

The latest sophisticated crank drive bikes seem to have the best range, 60 miles plus in some cases..............................really?

You'll need a good 20 a/h and a fair amount of time on very low settings, or even off at times. Then you get into the realm of wondering if you'd actually be better off on an ordinary light bike.

 

[Gubbins]

You'll need a good 20 a/h and a fair amount of time on very low settings, or even off at times. Then you get into the realm of wondering if you'd actually be better off on an ordinary light bike.

I have had 60 miles on a charge on a few occasions...... In fact I regularly get 35 to 40 whilst climbing 1500 to 2000 feet , and 30 miles climbing 3000. But that is without a dingle.... Which I suspect makes a massive difference to range...

 

[Artstu]

I wonder at what sort of average speed those rides were without a dingle? Oh and forgot to say that's very impressive.

 

[Gubbins]

I wonder at what sort of average speed those rides were without a dingle? Oh and forgot to say that's very impressive.

http://app.strava.com/activities/187259067

• 30.7mi
  Distance
  
• 2:15:30
  Moving Time
  
• 2,795ft
  Elevation (?)

• 239W
  Estimated Avg Power
  
• 1,940kJ
  Energy Output

Show Less
AvgMax
Speed13.6mi/h40.7mi/h
Heart Rate131bpm158bpm
Calories2,163
Temperature63℉
Elapsed Time2:22:16
to name but one!.. with plenty of battery to spare...
Of course the watts and KJouls dont mean much. One of the reasons I didnt buy the Dingle is that I thought range would be severely compromised.... may be wrong though. I have developed my own way of conserving the battery which sort of goes against some advice given out on the forum.. But mainly its keep pedalling, uphill down-dale, keep the cadence down and only use high power when absolutely necessary.

 

[Artstu]

I wonder how you'd get on with that route on your other bike? One to try one day perhaps...
Certainly keeping the speed down helps with range.

 

[Gubbins]

I wonder how you'd get on with that route on your other bike? One to try one day perhaps...
Certainly keeping the speed down helps with range.

I wouldnt even try this on the boardman even with my new gearing!.. They are big hills and it just isnt possible unassisted! Perhaps I said it wrong, I keep the speed up, its the cadence (RPM,s) that I try to keep down. I have noticed that as the battery runs out there is only usable power at a low cadence Or to put it another way, as the battery dies the first thing to disappear is assistance when pedalling fast, so from this my ageing brain suggests peddling fast uses more power.. So, if I have a choice on a hill of 2 gears to make the same speed I will choose the higher... A good example woudl be a gentle but long slope that I can just make the cut-off, here is where I choose the highest gear I can manage and still hit the magic 15! I try to climb all but the longest hills in tour., Its not the steepness thats in question as I get out of the saddle and push, but the length of time that I can expend the energy is quite short these days..The legs are willing, but they are on their own! LOL.
I recon that if I had this bike 40 years ago I could push for 100 miles per charge.. but sadly this is now, and I cant!!

 

[Artstu]

Something similar, although I did use a second battery from around 29 miles.

 

[Gubbins]

Something similar, although I did use a second battery from around 29 miles.

View attachment 9945

If only they weren't so expensive.....