Country lane commute options

[Hillhelp]

Just starting a new job with a 12 mile round trip commute after 18 years of commuting 150 miles per day by car. Did a trial ride on my 15 year old well used Saracen Hytrail pushbike and there is a nice and safe country lane and cycle path route but with a couple of hills which get my heart rate up to ~150bpm (I’m 51 but reasonably fit). This isn’t ideal as there are no shower facilities at the office so I’m considering an ebike to allow an easy ride in and more of a workout on the way home.

I’m hoping that this would allow me to get into a habit of cycling to work every day to keep my base level of fitness. I’m even hoping to use it on days when I’m playing other sport in the evening (something I wouldn’t do on the pushbike) and to not be tempted to use the car on windy days.

I rode the Gtech Sport at their test track in Worcester and was really impressed. It looked good and just felt like riding a normal bike with automatic gears – accelerating quicker from start and allowing less effort while retaining a normal speed up hills. My only concerns were that the ride was a bit harsh, the single gear would have limited the non assisted top speed and support might require a return to their head office.

A friend of mine then brought me his Pro Rider e Voyager which he had only used once and would sell to me for way less than my budget. Unfortunately lack of use meant the battery wouldn’t charge normally. I opened it up and the lowest cell was over 2V so I tried force charging it a bit by bypassing the BMS. This allowed me to test the bike although it still wouldn’t charge with the BMS connected so would need a new battery. My trial wasn’t necessarily fair as the battery was weak, but the bike was heavy and the big knobblies not ideal for road commuting, even with motor assist.

I then found out that the new job has the cycle to work scheme which would allow me to up my budget a bit. I trialled a Raleigh Captus from my local bike shop and it seemed to address all the concerns I had with the Gtech – much more comfortable ride, higher top gear and local shop support for the Bosch drive system. It also seems like it should handle the off road bridle paths I occasionally ride on the Saracen.

Any advice for me before I take the plunge? Does the Captus seem like a good choice?

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[Woosh]

Hello Hillhelp,

If you like the Gtech then you may like the Woosh Karoo.
It is slightly heavier but has 8-speed derailleur, a GXP bottom bracket, a throttle and a much larger capacity battery.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk?karoo

 

[Trevormonty]

If like Bosch Active try a Shimano Steps powered bike, there is not a lot between the two drive systems.
Go for bike with intregrated lights, they may cost more than battery powered after market lights but make big difference if using bike daily.

 

[JuicyBike]

after 18 years of commuting 150 miles per day by car.

You must feel very happy to have left that behind!
6 miles each way means your choice is wide open. Even the gtech will do that, if it's fairly flat.
If you've taken a test ride, the bike feels comfortable and is in budget then go for it. Summer's nearly here - the perfect opportunity to form new commuting habits. Go enjoy!

 

[egroover]

BIKES10 code at Halfords will get you the Crossfire-e below the magic bike2work scheme £1K. Alternatively the Vulcan ebike is already £1K without discount. Both great bikes IMHO. My Crossfire-e has been my (every) daily 12 mile commute since last summer, in all weathers. Flies along, faultless and has never let me down. Just about to buy the ladies version for the missus

 

[Hillhelp]

Thanks for the replies.

The Woosh seems to offer a couple of advantages over the Gtech and is a good price. However for some reason Woosh don’t work with Cyclescheme who administer my company’s scheme and the Raleigh therefore seems to offer a step up for not a great deal more money, coupled with local shop support.

The more I think about the crank mounted motor the more I like the idea. I’ve not tried anything fitted with the Shimano system. Is there any significant advantage over the Bosch? I already have several lights and actually prefer a detachable front light to use as a torch at my destination.

I’m definitely happy to give up the long commute! I used to cycle to work in previous jobs (many years ago) but twice office moves have thwarted this. The steepest hill on the new route is only 7% so it’s easily manageable even with a pushbike if showers were available, but an ebike will make it far more likely that I will cycle everyday.

Looks like the Captus will be fine for me.

Thanks again.

 

[Hillhelp]

Thanks egroover (missed your post earlier).

Amazingly Halfords aren't a partner of Cyclescheme either, although I guess the Carrera e maybe available elsewhere. Seems that there are some options under £1k What's the general opinion on hub versus crank motors? From what I can see crank seems to be better regarded but generally more expensive.

 

[Woosh]

What's the general opinion on hub versus crank motors? From what I can see crank seems to be better regarded but generally more expensive.

Bike motors need to be used in their sweet zone. At too high speed, the motor is useless because the reverse EMF is higher than the battery's voltage, stopping the current from flowing into the motor, effectively switching it off.
At too low speed, the motor becomes inefficient, turning a large proportion of electricity into heat, overheating your motor.
This is very clearly illustrated in the case of gearless hub motors (AKA direct drive or DD motors) - their sweet zone (of popular 1kw DD motors) is between 10mph and 30mph.
The geared hub drives let you extend the sweet zone to lower speeds, but reduce the sweet zone at the high end. With a 1:4 internal reduction ratio, the sweet zone of popular geared motors is between 6mph-24mph (arguably best choice for lightweight, low assist bikes). 1:5 and 1:10 gearboxes extend the sweet zone down to 4mph-22mph (arguably best for hill climbing bikes).
Crank drives let you leverage on the bike's gearing to extend the the sweet zone at both ends, 4mph-28mph. How far the high end can reach depends mainly on the power of the CD motor. The downside is that you have to select the right gear all the time and because power goes through the transmission, the latter needs more maintenance.
A CD motor is only marginally more expensive because of the gearbox. For a geared hub motor, the gearbox is usually a planetary reduction gearbox, costing about £20. Crank drive motor gearboxes have to handle 5 times higher torque, therefore cost a lot more.
If you are interested in a CD bike, Woosh make a few: the Bali, Krieger and Santana-CD. All within your budget.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Thanks egroover (missed your post earlier).

Amazingly Halfords aren't a partner of Cyclescheme either, although I guess the Carrera e maybe available elsewhere. Seems that there are some options under £1k What's the general opinion on hub versus crank motors? From what I can see crank seems to be better regarded but generally more expensive.

Hub-motors are better for commuting. Crank-motors are better for "active" cycling. Basically, you'll be a lot more busy with a crank-motor. Generally, you have to pedal more and change gear a lot more with the crank-motor. All the other advantages and disadvantages cancel each other out. My opinion.

 

[egroover]

Thanks egroover (missed your post earlier).

Amazingly Halfords aren't a partner of Cyclescheme either, although I guess the Carrera e maybe available elsewhere. Seems that there are some options under £1k What's the general opinion on hub versus crank motors? From what I can see crank seems to be better regarded but generally more expensive.

Never tried a crank drive, all I know that my hub motor crossfire-e gets me to work at an average of 15mph without too much effort,I arrive cool and unflustered, and that includes a mile long 7% hill climb (goes up there at 12-13mph), and I'm 100kg and 6ft 2in.

 

[Danidl]

.

Just starting a new job with a 12 mile round trip commute after 18 years of commuting 150 miles per day by car. Did a trial ride on my 15 year old well used Saracen Hytrail pushbike and there is a nice and safe country lane and cycle path route but with a couple of hills which get my heart rate up to ~150bpm (I’m 51 but reasonably fit). This isn’t ideal as there are no shower facilities at the office so I’m considering an ebike to allow an easy ride in and more of a workout on the way home.

I’m hoping that this would allow me to get into a habit of cycling to work every day to keep my base level of fitness. I’m even hoping to use it on days when I’m playing other sport in the evening (something I wouldn’t do on the pushbike) and to not be tempted to use the car on windy days.

I rode the Gtech Sport at their test track in Worcester and was really impressed. It looked good and just felt like riding a normal bike with automatic gears – accelerating quicker from start and allowing less effort while retaining a normal speed up hills. My only concerns were that the ride was a bit harsh, the single gear would have limited the non assisted top speed and support might require a return to their head office.

A friend of mine then brought me his Pro Rider e Voyager which he had only used once and would sell to me for way less than my budget. Unfortunately lack of use meant the battery wouldn’t charge normally. I opened it up and the lowest cell was over 2V so I tried force charging it a bit by bypassing the BMS. This allowed me to test the bike although it still wouldn’t charge with the BMS connected so would need a new battery. My trial wasn’t necessarily fair as the battery was weak, but the bike was heavy and the big knobblies not ideal for road commuting, even with motor assist.

I then found out that the new job has the cycle to work scheme which would allow me to up my budget a bit. I trialled a Raleigh Captus from my local bike shop and it seemed to address all the concerns I had with the Gtech – much more comfortable ride, higher top gear and local shop support for the Bosch drive system. It also seems like it should handle the off road bridle paths I occasionally ride on the Saracen.

Any advice for me before I take the plunge? Does the Captus seem like a good choice?

Thanks in anticipation.

. In my opinion the Raliegh captus is a good product the Bosch system is very refined . But for a little more you can get their Motus. Bigger battery , hydraulic brakes. I think the underlying frame is the same. I have the Motus and am very pleased with it. These bikes are road bikes, smooth and comfortable , without Knobbly tyres. A 12 mile round trip no problem... They are also suitable for gravel, for towpaths and similar, but I would not recommend them for off road..

 

[Hillhelp]

Thanks for the further replies – this seems a very active and friendly forum.

Woosh
Thanks for the explanation. Not sure I agree that the back emf gets higher than the applied voltage, but I understand what you mean about the sweet spot. As UK bike assist is limited to 15.5mph but the motors are no doubt the same as on the global market, I guess there is still plenty of torque produced at 15mph?

d8veh
As I want a pushbike with a bit of help here and there rather than a moped, perhaps the crank drive would be more appropriate for me? When you say hub motors are better for commuting, do you mean they are better for when I’m feeling a bit lazy?

Egroover
I’m a similar size you you with a similar hill so it’s good to hear that the Carrera (and hopefully most comparable ebikes) takes it in its stride.

Danidl
I like the look of the Motus, but I’m already pushing my budget on the Captus (which is a 2016 model on offer at my local dealer).

Main problem I can see at the moment is whether I can add some money to the Cyclescheme amount to allow me to buy a crank drive model. I accept that I would be risking my own extra money as my company will officially own the bike for the first 4 years, but my dealer seems to think that some schemes / employers won’t allow such ‘topping up’. I’m waiting to hear from them.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

d8veh
As I want a pushbike with a bit of help here and there rather than a moped, perhaps the crank drive would be more appropriate for me? When you say hub motors are better for commuting, do you mean they are better for when I’m feeling a bit lazy?

It seems to me that you have some very strange ideas about what a hub-motor is or does. What type of motor you have, has nothing to do with whether your bike is like a moped.

The reason that I think hub-motors are better for commuting is that:
1. If you get any problem with your drive train, you won't be stranded.
2. Crank-drives generally need more maintenance.
3. The hub motor gives it's power whatever gear you're in, so when you have to stop quickly in the wrong gear, it's easy to get going again.
4. You don't need to be in the right gear all the time. You can pedal at whatever speed you feel comfortable, and the amount of gear-changing is much less. that's important when you get cold in the winter.
5. Most hub-motored bikes have more suitable control systems, where you can dial in exactly the power you want and pedal as hard or easy as you want/need to.
6. On many hub-motored bikes you can fit a throttle, which can be a life-saver if your pedalling becomes hampered, like when you fall off on winter ice and injure your knee or you have to carry something awkward.

For a short ride or fun riding, none of these things matter, but for commuting, they do - as you'll find out sooner or later. You must fit puncture resistant tyres like Scwhalbe Marathon Plus, which will more or less eliminate punctures. Some people will tell you that it's harder to fit a puncture on a bike with a hub-motor. It isn't. I used to do it a lot before I fitted MPs, so i'm pretty well qualified to comment.

 

[georgehenry]

I have ridden 3000 miles a year commuting a minimum round trip of 20 miles and up to 28 miles.

I have an Oxygen emate city 2011 hub powered bike with a throttle and a 2015 yamaha sduro crank powered bike.

I would agree with all the advantages d8veh mentions above for hub powered bikes. Basically my Oxygen hub powered bike is a more relaxing bike to ride and you can still exercise by adding as much effort as you want to. The transmission requires far less maintenance and a throttle can be a life saver to get you to work or home in the event of a transmission failure.

Hub powered bikes are less good on very steep hills and if your route includes lots of steep hills a crank bike might be better.

However depending on your mechanical confidence, sourcing your bike from a good supportive local bike shop where you can go for maintenance and assistance when you have problems can be invaluable and get you back on the road quickly when you have problems. So important that if they are a really good shop and do not stock hub powered bikes I would buy the most suitable crank drive bike instead.

Whatever bike you choose regular commuting is a punishing environment and you will wear things out and need to replace parts.

Good puncture protected tires are a must for regular commuting.

I like going off road and this is where crank drive bikes have a real advantage. My Yamaha crank drive allows me to commute over real mountain bike terrain going places that the Oxygen cannot.

You always have to push those pedals and change gear more on a crank bike and when you are tired after or sometimes early in the morning before work the relaxing nature of a hub bike is very nice.

So if you are just starting out commuting mostly on the road, or canal tow path etc, without too many very steep hills a hub bike with a throttle is probably best, supported by a good local bike shop.

However the great thing is that either style of bike will open up a whole new world of fun not least of which is the choosing stage.

I had to take my car to work the other day and suddenly realized that it was the first time in literally months. Marvelous.

 

[egroover]

Great thread.
A couple of mentions of Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres as a must, just wanna say that I have been running Schwalbe Energizer Plus and not a single puncture in 2300 miles, and they roll really well with plenty of grip. Best bit they are about half the price, at £10.99 per tyre from SJS cycles
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tyres/700-x-32-34622-schwalbe-energizer-plus-hs427-tyre-700-622/

 

[Hillhelp]

I appreciate that my moped analogy was a bit flippant, d8veh. I was just responding to your comment ‘you have to pedal more and change gear a lot more with the crank-motor.’ I guess that makes it more like a normal pushbike? Most of the advantages of the hub bike you mention could also be read as advantages over a pushbike. I used to regularly commute on my pushbike before my last job so that doesn’t worry me too much (although any reduction in maintenance appeals), I'm just older now and don’t want to be too hot and sweaty when I arrive at work, or to wimp out of riding on windy days.
I am not averse to a hub bike, it’s just that the Captus was available on offer at my local shop (a definite advantage as you point out georgehenry), felt great when I tested it and seemed a good deal.

Just as you are persuading me to possibly look farther afield to at least try another hub bike (the only one I’ve tried is the Gtech which I appreciate is a different animal to most hub bikes) I note that my shop has reduced the Captus by another £100! Very tempting, though by the time I get confirmation whether I can get it through Cyclescheme it may have gone.
I really appreciate all the input. Although I’m a lifelong cyclist (though certainly no MAMIL!) I am a complete novice when it comes to ebikes and don’t know anyone who rides one.

 

[Danidl]

I appreciate that my moped analogy was a bit flippant, d8veh. I was just responding to your comment ‘you have to pedal more and change gear a lot more with the crank-motor.’ I guess that makes it more like a normal pushbike? Most of the advantages of the hub bike you mention could also be read as advantages over a pushbike. I used to regularly commute on my pushbike before my last job so that doesn’t worry me too much (although any reduction in maintenance appeals), I'm just older now and don’t want to be too hot and sweaty when I arrive at work, or to wimp out of riding on windy days.
I am not averse to a hub bike, it’s just that the Captus was available on offer at my local shop (a definite advantage as you point out georgehenry), felt great when I tested it and seemed a good deal.

Just as you are persuading me to possibly look farther afield to at least try another hub bike (the only one I’ve tried is the Gtech which I appreciate is a different animal to most hub bikes) I note that my shop has reduced the Captus by another £100! Very tempting, though by the time I get confirmation whether I can get it through Cyclescheme it may have gone.
I really appreciate all the input. Although I’m a lifelong cyclist (though certainly no MAMIL!) I am a complete novice when it comes to ebikes and don’t know anyone who rides one.

... I am fan of the Bosch active 2 crank drive and will recommend both the Motus and it's little brother or sister the Captus. It gives a very refined cycling experience. Some of the hub bikes will give you a whoosh of a start , which can be exciting .(. no trade mark infringement intended. ). The Bosch just gives and keeps giving assistance, .. just like there was someone pushing the bike from behind and at the exact rate you need. Were the unlikely event to occur, and the battery or motor failed, then it rides just like an normal bike.
The argument about gears is more a theoretical than a practical problem. Anyone used to gears will find them automatic, and if you found yourself stopped and in a high gear well the bike will move once the pedal is rotated even a tiny bit and with turbo assist will bring you accross the road. I find that middle gear position 5 of 10 , serves most of my needs on flat ground anyway.
Replacing tyres and tubes is easier, than with a powered hub. Front or back wheels can be removed in about 5 seconds on the Motus or captus.. and the tyres can be removed without levers, even by by geriatric 66 year old hands. ..... The advice about using either puncture resistant tyres and or slime filled tubes is very sound and a welcome investment
One of the hidden advantages of the Captus or Motus is the upright seating position, it is much more comfortable, easier on the back and backside, but it does come with a disadvantage, in that it has a larger wind resistance...
. So my advice is to go for it..

 

[georgehenry]

One other point for a regular commuter to consider is that the main ebike parts on most hub powered bikes being sourced from china are much cheaper than Yamaha or Bosch, ie replacement motor, likewise battery.

But that Captus sounds great and I assume all the main electrical bits are guaranteed for two years.

What did I say about the choosing bit being the best part!

 

[Trevormonty]

While mid drive might wear through drive train components quicker than hub. The weekly maintenance of cleaning and oiling chains is same for both drive systems.

With 9spd chain and cassettes parts are cheap for Captus.

 

[Woosh]

Hillhelp,

May I also suggest the new Woosh Rio?

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?rio-mtb