Cost of new batteries - re Wisper

[JJebike]

Hi,

Our family use a number of new and older wisper bikes. Like most users we have concerns about the cost of replacing batteries on the older ebikes.

Is it not time that the manufacturers such as wisper started to reduce the cost of batteries on the older kettle plug bikes to help keep these bikes(and the wisper name) on the road vs these bikes getting binned for newer/more advanced ebikes, potentially from another brand?

Brand loyalty is being tested when after 3/4 years I need to fork out over £500 for a battery for a wisper that's probably only worth 600/£700 pounds now.

Come on wisper(and others) now is the time to make it more cost effective for riders to buy replacement batteries for our older ebikes as brand loyality is a two-way thing!

 

[jerrysimon]

What about a third party battery, if that is possible ?

Any purchase of a new ebike for me would include an assessment of battery replacement costs. There are some vendors on here who only charge £200 for a replacement battery. I have to say that would be a strong motivator for me to go with them.

As I make my own ebikes and batteries something that I don't have to worry about, though I did buy my daughter an ebike but at a greatly reduced price.

 

[D C]

If I was buying an ebike the cost of replacement batteries would be one of my first considerations which was the case when I chose my DIY kit.
As anyone buying now should not need a replacement for two/three years we can only hope they will decrease in price by that time though it didn't happen with printer ink!
I'm sure that any company offering attractive priced replacements to original customers would increase their share of the market in sales of new bikes and kits, we would just have to hope they where still there when we need them.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

When a battery goes on a BMW car, some people take their car to a BMW garage and pay them a fortune to replace it. More astute owners go to the battery shop and buy the same battery at a fraction of the price.

I can remember a few years ago. I needed a battery and oil filter for my motorbike. The battery shop was directly opposite the motorbike shop. I bought my battery for £20 and then crossed the road to the motorike shop for the oil filter. There, the guy in the queue in front of me asked for a battery for his bike. The salesman looked it up in a book, disappeared out the back. Then I saw a guy run across the road and come back with a battery. The salesman re-appeared with it, put it on the counter and said £70 plus VAT. The guy paid and left apparently happy. There wasn't any significant difference in size or quality of the two batteries. Mine was for a VFR750, his was for a Yamaha of some sort.

 

[RobF]

I'm all in favour of putting a bit of pressure on retailers, but can see no reason why Wisper should sell a battery cheap just because it will be fitted on an older bike.

You wouldn't expect a cheaper price for a chain, tyre, or any other component just because your bike is old.

Whether it's worth putting a new component on an old bike is a matter for the bike's owner.

 

[flecc]

The problem is fundamental to e-bikes and e-cars, a lithium battery is a very high proportion of the product cost. Excepting e-cars, no other major product I can readily think of has such a high intrinsic consumable cost. A new bicycle can be retailed in the UK for as little as £50, but that's an impossible figure for an e-bike's lithium battery.

It's arguable that today's e-bikes are not ready for the mass market on that ground alone, that has certainly proved true for electric cars.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Kudos cycles is into its fourth year, during that time I haven't seem much difference in the purchase prices of our batteries,so the selling price of a replacement Kudos battery is between £200-250.
With regard to battery life, we have sold over 1000 bikes with LifePo4 batteries,many are customers on this forum....the anticipated life of these batteries at 4 years plus is now looking a realistic estimate.
It's just a shame that LifePo4 is heavy so on our performance bikes we had to change to LiMnO4,we anticipate a life for these of 3 years,however we have kept the replacement battery price down to below £200.
KudosDave

 

[JJebike]

Kudos cycles is into its fourth year, during that time I haven't seem much difference in the purchase prices of our batteries,so the selling price of a replacement Kudos battery is between £200-250.
With regard to battery life, we have sold over 1000 bikes with LifePo4 batteries,many are customers on this forum....the anticipated life of these batteries at 4 years plus is now looking a realistic estimate.
It's just a shame that LifePo4 is heavy so on our performance bikes we had to change to LiMnO4,we anticipate a life for these of 3 years,however we have kept the replacement battery price down to below £200.
KudosDave

There are of course other bikes and batteries but I'd prefer to stay with wisper and always use the correct wisper batteries on the older(3/4 year old) bikes.

I am not asking for genuine wisper batteries on older bikes to be discounted to £200 from £500, rather just some pricing support and recognition from wisper(and other brands too) that these older quality bikes are still in great condition and "fly the flag" everytime we are out on them.

BMW and Mercedes offer reduced servicing and parts costs on older models They do this not to give money away but rather to retain brand loyalty and it works well, I think any ebike company who takes the plunge/approach with a key parts(re battery) on older ebikes will in absolutely reap the rewards in terms customer loyalty and repeat business come new ebike time.

ebike success/growth is not just about selling new gear to new customers. It is also about looking after those who have invested in products/a brand and the ebike concept in general. The more ebikes we keep on the road the better it is for everyone associated with this hobby and as a business.

The thought of seeing a wisper/ebike that is in fantastic condition getting scrapped because of a battery cost does not sit well with me as it is one set of ewheels that is now off the road!.

 

[Jimod]

I think if wisper or any other ebike company were the size of BMW then they probably could offer cheaper batteries for older bikes.

My
Kudos is 2.5 years old and the battery is still fine but, if the battery was to die tonight, the monetary worth in the bike wouldn't be a concern. I'd think, will the bike last another 3 years? If so, then £200 isn't much to pay for another 3 years cycling

My car isn't worth a lot of money but the petrol station don't give me a discount on my fuel. The battery on the bike is simply part of the fuel.

 

[JJebike]

I think if wisper or any other ebike company were the size of BMW then they probably could offer cheaper batteries for older bikes.

My
Kudos is 2.5 years old and the battery is still fine but, if the battery was to die tonight, the monetary worth in the bike wouldn't be a concern. I'd think, will the bike last another 3 years? If so, then £200 isn't much to pay for another 3 years cycling

My car isn't worth a lot of money but the petrol station don't give me a discount on my fuel. The battery on the bike is simply part of the fuel.

You are correct £200 for a battery for your older ebike is not a lot for another 3 years.....but £500/600 is! If these higher capacity batteries(re 14/15amp's) were £300/350 and the manufacturer worked hard with the supplier so that he did not lose money on them, then everyone wins.

Everything is relative....of course ebike companies ain't as big as BMW but that does not mean the proven brand loyalty scheme concepts from the motor industry can't still work in the ebike industry. BMW are, I suspect still making some money or at least /breaking even on these parts!

Keeping older ebikes on the road means more servicing revenue for official dealers, more sales of other parts, brakes, tyres, chainsets ets etc so it can/will soon compensate/balance itself out over the next 2/3 years of a replacement battery life. After 5/7 years your probably going to want a new ebike and if that brand has looked after you during that time....what brand are you more likely to buy again?

Maybe a company like wisper could offer a discounted battery replacement scheme whereby a bikes serial no is registered and that serial no qualifies for 1 x replacement discounted battery only against that specific serial number. This could apply to all new 2014 and existing wisper bikes from 2009.

 

[los monty]

£500 is too much when other suppliers can supply 2 for that price.

Add to the fact Tesco can supply a functional ebike for £420.

Forum posts like this will be picked up by prospective buyers.

I am sure I am not alone in factoring replacement battery costs when deciding on a purchase.

I do feel for the bike shops but perhaps if they changed their dealerships or buy direct like Woosh,
the distributers would have to supply cheaper batteries.

If they don't the Tesco "Hopper Shopper" will soon be joined by big sister "Trolley Dolly" Replacement batteries £200.

 

[martin@onbike]

Got this price from Wisper for a kettle connector battery earlier this week....

Kettle lead type battery – RRP £399 inclusive of VAT – Item in stock

Don't know who quoted that £500+ price, but it seems a tad topheavy to me.

 

[the_killjoy]

There is always the option to use a carrier fitted battery; maybe not the most elegant solution but certainly cheaper.

 

[JJebike]

Got this price from Wisper for a kettle connector battery earlier this week....

Kettle lead type battery – RRP £399 inclusive of VAT – Item in stock

Don't know who quoted that £500+ price, but it seems a tad topheavy to me.

The 14 amp batts for 2009/2010 models at £512 each

 

[los monty]

Got this price from Wisper for a kettle connector battery earlier this week....

Kettle lead type battery – RRP £399 inclusive of VAT – Item in stock

Don't know who quoted that £500+ price, but it seems a tad topheavy to me.

£400 for a lead battery not exactly a bargain then

 

[martin@onbike]

Hmmm....we asked Wisper Freego for a price for a 14Ah kettle "connector" type battery, and were quoted the £399.

A 16ah battery for Wisper 705 – RRP £525 inclusive of VAT – Awaiting stock

Maybe whack another £15-£20 on top for delivery costs...

 

[John F]

Hmmm....we asked Wisper Freego for a price for a 14Ah kettle "connector" type battery, and were quoted the £399.

A 16ah battery for Wisper 705 – RRP £525 inclusive of VAT – Awaiting stock

Maybe whack another £15-£20 on top for delivery costs...

Exactly WHY do ebike batteries cost so much (in many cases) My 15 amp replacement costs £310, yet many companies charge far more, for what must be essentially the same thing? A chemical device with some electronics - what am I missing here? It seems the dearer the bike the dearer the battery!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Different batteries have different cells and BMSs,which could account for some difference; however, you can still buy cheap batteries with good cells and BMSs. Luckily, most batteries are standard sizes/shapes, so you can always get an alternative at a reasonable price. Thankfully, some brands like Kudos and Woosh have make an effort to keep the cost of replacements reasonable.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The honest truth is that it's taking a long time for the public to wake up to the joy of ebike ownership. They are persuaded by dealers that there is a minimum price to get a nice electric bike and at the point of purchase they don't have the knowledge to ask about the life and replacement cost of batteries.To be fair there have been some awful Chinese bikes imported at very cheap prices which support that view.
Paying 2k plus for an electric bike can be value for money,as long as you understand what you are getting for your money-however I do think that many follow the hype and believe that the more you pay the better the bike. I have stood alongside a super smooth salesman at a bike show describing the merits of his £2.5k European supplied bike and criticising Chinese product, yet his own product also comes from Shanghai.
Coming back to why some replacement batteries are £200 and some £500 plus,is that the customers let the profile names get away with these high prices. Unfortunately what often happens is that when the oem battery fails and presented with a £500 replacement cost the bike gets dumped back in the shed or dumped on e-bay,the owner fed up with his electric bike.
Kudos was determined to offer inexpensive bikes and batteries and keep customers happy and back as repeat purchasers. Perhaps the choice of LifePo4 was unfortunate because the batteries appear to have very long life and customers feel no pressure to upgrade their bikes.
As long as customers are prepared to buy bikes with £500 batteries then the manufacturers will continue to levy that charge. If you don't buy those bikes be assured that the battery prices will reduce,after all,it's not that you are short of alternatives.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

What about a third party battery, if that is possible ?

Any purchase of a new ebike for me would include an assessment of battery replacement costs. There are some vendors on here who only charge £200 for a replacement battery. I have to say that would be a strong motivator for me to go with them.

As I make my own ebikes and batteries something that I don't have to worry about, though I did buy my daughter an ebike but at a greatly reduced price.

third party battery is possible if you are a good DIYer.
The Wisper battery has the output connector at the middle of the base plate - so it won't fit a standard case like those made by Shan Shan. You will have to replace the base plate with a new one, which can of course be bought from the third party supplier.
Wholesale price of Chinese celled 36V 10AH batteries $170 from major Chinese suppliers, a charger for it costs about $12 and the battery frame mount around $15. If you want Samsung cells, expect to pay 30% extra, Panasonic cells about 5% more than Samsung. Higher capacity is pro-rata.
BMS are normally programmed for15A unless you ask for high current version. The rest is profit for various intermediaries, including BMSbattery who provides a one stop shop, their markup is about 12%.