Convert a Kona Cinder Cone to an electric bike; please help!

[Scott_J]

Thanks Michael.

May I ask; what size battery are you using?

 

[Scott_J]

It involves programming the controller on the BBS01 via a programming cable which you have to buy. There is a complete thread about the programming process and options here on Endless Sphere. There is a lot of reading there so I'd only bother if you are committed to getting that particular motor! I have the cable myself if you are anywhere near Surrey.

Jeez! That looks like the Millennium Falcon's warp drive to me matey!

I'm based in Crawley. Let me have a butcher's at it and I'll get back to you.

Cheers

 

[mfj197]

Jeez! That looks like the Millennium Falcon's warp drive to me matey!

I'm based in Crawley. Let me have a butcher's at it and I'll get back to you.

Cheers

I know! I've found a rather simpler guide to programming it on an Australian dealer's page - eMax eBikes here. Download the "programming_bafang_bbs.pdf" file. It also gives a good indication of what all the parameters can do. I haven't quite finished my conversion yet and haven't programmed the drive but have the cable just in case! I'm only over in Guildford.

I'm using an 11.6Ah 36V battery. I've built it from decent high-power Panasonic cells, all-up weight 2kg. It will be mounted inside a bag so I don't need a hard case or frame mounting hardware.

Michael

 

[mfj197]

p.s. I'm converting a bike not unlike the Eastway you're looking at! I'm converting a Cube SL Road Pro flat bar road bike - link here.

 

[Kinninvie]

Emax supply the cable and software to the Uk for £20.
Not a bad price from the other side of the world and he will talk you through it step by step if you need it.

 

[mfj197]

That's a good price and sounds like good service too. Mine was more than that and it only shipped from Germany!

 

[Scott_J]

I know! I've found a rather simpler guide to programming it on an Australian dealer's page - eMax eBikes here. Download the "programming_bafang_bbs.pdf" file. It also gives a good indication of what all the parameters can do. I haven't quite finished my conversion yet and haven't programmed the drive but have the cable just in case! I'm only over in Guildford.

Thanks Michael, expect a message soon and I'd love to see the bike when it's built, if that's possible?

Do you know the top speed of your build?

 

[mfj197]

Thanks Michael, expect a message soon and I'd love to see the bike when it's built, if that's possible?

Do you know the top speed of your build?

Yes, you'd be welcome to see the bike when it's done. I'm making good progress but it's just finding the time in the evenings when you have a young family! Motor is mounted, wiring pretty much complete, display, throttle and brake sensors fitted, battery pack welded up. I'm trying to make this a good looking build so am taking quite a lot of time over the wiring etc. I need to sort out a good way of getting the battery cable out from inside a watertight bag, and also a way of discretely mounting the DC-DC converter I'm using for my bike lights (probably be under the saddle).

Top speed - don't know really. If delimited it should comfortably do 22mph, quite possibly 25. I may well not adjust the current limit and just leave it as it is.

 

[selrahc1992]

That's a long hill. It changes things a bit. For most of us here, the average 250w hub-motor would be unsuitable. It might have enough power and torque to do the job, but it would almost certainly overheat, and so would the controller. You have to keep a hub-motor spinning above 50% of its maximum speed, except for short periods, but, for that hill, it'll take me about an hour to climb. That brings two main factors to decide whether it would work for your gf: The maximum speed of the motor and the power to weight factor of your gf, which we can't assess. It could work, therefore if you can find a motor with a low enough (say 180 rpm) winding speed. The bigger motors have the torque to maintain a higher speed, but you still need a low winding speed one, which means that you, ll be carrying the weight above say 25km/h.

A crank-drive motor or the 2-speed Xiongda hub-motor would be a better solution because neither suffer from low-speed over-heating.

To give you an idea of how the heat is affected by speed, my neighbour has a 500w BPM. It has no trouble getting him up long steep hills of which there's a lot round here. I was on my Xiongda bike, when we decided to see how it could tackle Ironbridge's Lincoln Hill, which is about a mile long averaging maybe 12%, but going to about 30% in ond bit. He's done it before with no trouble at a reasonable speed. My Xiongda changes to a lower gear, so I was climbing at about 6mph. He slowed down to stay with me, but before he got to the top, his motor started misfiring and finally stopped. The phase wires coming out of his controller had completely melted, though his motor and controller were hot but still OK.

apologies all for dredging up an old thread (not to mention semi hijacking it) - but i reread this carefully and realised i had allowed my natural pessimism to get the better of me: this is the key:

"The phase wires coming out of his controller had completely melted, though his motor and controller were hot but still OK"

so, if one had a beefy controller

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/721-s12sn-1000w-40a-torque-simulation-sine-wave-controller-ebike-kit.html?search_query=controller&results=140

the phase wires i imagine wouldnt melt and everything woudl be hot, but happy most of the time?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The heat always goes for the weekest component first. In this case it was the short phase wires that come out of the controller to the bullet connectors. When we got home, I soldered the motor wires directly to the pcb to eliminate that problem.

If you get a big controller with beefy phase wires, the phase wires won't melt, but if you drive your motor too hard, something else will, like the motor windings.

In normal riding, a long steep hill might take 5 minutes to get up, which doesn't really give enough time for things to heat up to the point of damage, but a long climb up an alp that takes more than half an hour would be a different matter.

 

[Scott_J]

Top speed - don't know really. If delimited it should comfortably do 22mph, quite possibly 25. I may well not adjust the current limit and just leave it as it is.

Thanks again Michael
May I ask, if you've got the bike going (yet!) is there any flex around the bottom bracket area with the bike being an alloy frame?

Interesting reading from d8veh. It looks as though the missus will be cycling the mountain a few hairpins at a time!

Re. the BBS02

Does anyone know if it's got the wattage stamped on the outside of it?

Is it OK to use it with v brakes?
I've got another ol' Kona that I was going to use with a crank drive (see pic).
It's steel.

 

[selrahc1992]

The heat always goes for the weekest component first. In this case it was the short phase wires that come out of the controller to the bullet connectors. When we got home, I soldered the motor wires directly to the pcb to eliminate that problem.

If you get a big controller with beefy phase wires, the phase wires won't melt, but if you drive your motor too hard, something else will, like the motor windings.

In normal riding, a long steep hill might take 5 minutes to get up, which doesn't really give enough time for things to heat up to the point of damage, but a long climb up an alp that takes more than half an hour would be a different matter.

many thanks, it makes much sense, i think ill go with the 1000w controller and 500w bpm nonetheles but try to do " a few hairpins at a time" so to speak

 

[selrahc1992]

many thanks, it makes much sense, i think ill go with the 1000w controller and 500w bpm nonetheles but try to do " a few hairpins at a time" so to speak

and hope that manages the heat

 

[Nealh]

The BBS have the serial, wattage and amp laser printed on the underside of the unit.

 

[mfj197]

Thanks again Michael
May I ask, if you've got the bike going (yet!) is there any flex around the bottom bracket area with the bike being an alloy frame?

I haven't got the bike going yet although I've run the motor in it. No flex that I can see, and I'm not quite sure how there would be any - an aluminium frame is likely to be a bit stiffer than a steel one. I've made a wedge of epoxy putty for the motor to bear against on the underside of the downtube so it's all fairly tight.

Interesting reading from d8veh. It looks as though the missus will be cycling the mountain a few hairpins at a time!

No, that's only a problem if you are labouring the motor at low speeds. If you are using a crank drive, or the dual-speed hub motor, the motor can still spin at efficient revs even though you are going slowly, so it doesn't overheat. Your missus can wend her merry way up the hairpins until the battery runs out.

Re. the BBS02

Does anyone know if it's got the wattage stamped on the outside of it?

Yes it does.

Is it OK to use it with v brakes?
I've got another ol' Kona that I was going to use with a crank drive (see pic).
It's steel.

It's fine to use with V brakes. You could use the cable brake levers that come with the kit (they have cutoff sensors in) although they aren't the best quality. If you'd like to keep your original V brake levers then you can use the HWBS - hidden wire brake sensor, sold at quite a few places.

Michael

 

[Deleted member 4366]

many thanks, it makes much sense, i think ill go with the 1000w controller and 500w bpm nonetheles but try to do " a few hairpins at a time" so to speak

If you're going to get a BPM, the S12S controller will be more than enough with a 48v battery. The 260 rpm BPM (code 14) can do 24 mph and it has plenty of torque to keep the speed above the danger zone. It would probably manage the climb without even going to maximum power. All things considered, I think it would be my choice. If you're not worried about going over 15 mph, the 201 rpm one would be even better.

 

[mfj197]

It would probably manage the climb without even going to maximum power.

selrahc wasn't the original poster - I don't think he's planning any excursions up Alpe d'Huez. Although he did say he'd try to do a few hairpins at a time - maybe he is?

 

[selrahc1992]

If you're going to get a BPM, the S12S controller will be more than enough with a 48v battery. The 260 rpm BPM (code 14) can do 24 mph and it has plenty of torque to keep the speed above the danger zone. It would probably manage the climb without even going to maximum power. All things considered, I think it would be my choice. If you're not worried about going over 15 mph, the 201 rpm one would be even better.

many thanks, as mfj197 points out, im planning on dragging a 100kg camping trailer through sand on beaches, guess it comes to the same thing from the motor's perspective. thanks for very helpful advice - I'll try code 14 - would be very useful to have 24mph for commuting, one snag is that i tried a friends bpm500 with 40 amp controller and cant get rid of yen since to have simialr 1.5 to 2kw power - not for routine use, but in a small wheeled bike (raleigh twenty) very very addictive (like a pedelec version of scalextrix)

 

[Scott_J]

The BBS have the serial, wattage and amp laser printed on the underside of the unit.

Thank you

 

[Scott_J]

If you're going to get a BPM, the S12S controller will be more than enough with a 48v battery. The 260 rpm BPM (code 14) can do 24 mph and it has plenty of torque to keep the speed above the danger zone. It would probably manage the climb without even going to maximum power. All things considered, I think it would be my choice. If you're not worried about going over 15 mph, the 201 rpm one would be even better.

Awh GAWD!!! Now I'm all confused again!!!!

Thanks for your help Michael! I am listening to everyone!!!

BTW, whats a BPM and whom makes it?