Confused,bike has no magnet PAS,but a crank /torque sensor ?

[minexplorer]

Years ago i was given a cheap ebay ebike with a single speed controller.Ive been getting advice on replacing it, with a simulated torque controller,for better hill climbing assist.
Just now i took the PAS/crank off to clean away mud build up.I was suprised to find no magnet ring.Im using ps4 browser,so cant load photos.However an ELECTRICBIKE.COM article titled.TORQUE SENSORS ON ELECTRIC BIKES shows,5th photo down,what ive got. "crank sensors use custom built cranks with the torque sensor built in".
An integrated crank,chainring,PAS unit. Inside a circuit board with sensors and a ring of 30 plastic teeth .
So now i really am confused .This isnt like the expensive torque units.But it seems the bikes already set up with torque sensing ? Will fitting a simulated torque controller be incompatible?
I thought the assistance seeming to reduce on hills,was due to it being a speed sensor PAS.Or is it to do with it having a single speed controller ? Id much appreciate any further advice anyone can provide.Thanks

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm not convinced that what's shown in that photo is a torque sensor. I have one that's in an identical housing, but what's inside is an optical cadence sensor. Either way, it won't be compatible with a controller update, so chuck it and fit a normal magnet disc cadence sensor, which will be much better.

 

[Woosh]

is this you are referring to?

https://www.electricbike.com/torque-sensors/

That's a torque sensor using springs, like the one used by the Suntour HESC.

 

[minexplorer]

is this you are referring to?

https://www.electricbike.com/torque-sensors/

That's a torque sensor using springs, like the one used by the Suntour HESC.

Thats it.What does it mean. Will it as d8veh says be incompatible with any controller change.Thanks

 

[minexplorer]

I'm not convinced that what's shown in that photo is a torque sensor. I have one that's in an identical housing, but what's inside is an optical cadence sensor. Either way, it won't be compatible with a controller update, so chuck it and fit a normal magnet disc cadence sensor, which will be much better.

Thanks d8veh. Ill see if i can work out how to upload a photo with the missus phone. But new chainring an peddles too id guess ,as its all one unit.The PAS kicks in instantly compared with the BBS long delay.Wish that was as quick.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

is this you are referring to?

https://www.electricbike.com/torque-sensors/

That's a torque sensor using springs, like the one used by the Suntour HESC.

He said that his one has the toothed wheel and sensors in, which means that it's the optical one, like mine. The plastic housing is the same.

 

[Woosh]

Thats it.What does it mean. Will it as d8veh says be incompatible with any controller change.Thanks

a torque sensor needs to be combined with a rotational sensor to interpret its output. The system you have may have local processing, its output may look like a throttle signal (3-pin on the white plug). If this is the case, then you can use any standard Chinese controller. Otherwise, you'd be better off to replace the torque sensor with a left side pedal sensor that lets you use a standard controller.

 

[minexplorer]

He said that his one has the toothed wheel and sensors in, which means that it's the optical one, like mine. The plastic housing is the same.
View attachment 23333 View attachment 23334

Yes thats whats inside d8veh.4 sensors but also a tiny silver box on the circuit board . ill try get a photo up anyway

 

[Woosh]

He said that his one has the toothed wheel and sensors in, which means that it's the optical one, like mine. The plastic housing is the same.

does yours output a throttle signal?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That sensor only works with the controller you already have. IIRC, it sends out an analogue signal (variable voltage), while as normal sensors send out digital (pulses of 5v).

 

[Deleted member 4366]

does yours output a throttle signal?

Not as such. It was 8 years ago that I played with it, so I can't really remember everything. All I remember is that the sensor didn't work with normal controllers and the controller that came with that sensor only gave maximum power when you pedalled, so I had to put a switch on it. there was a separate throttle control.

By today's standards, it was diabolical: only one level (max power), delay before operating and 2 second run-on after stopping pedalling. if I was given a bike today with that setup, I'd spend £50 on a modern controller with LCD and a conventional PAS.

 

[minexplorer]

a torque sensor needs to be combined with a rotational sensor to interpret its output. The system you have may have local processing, its output may look like a throttle signal (3-pin on the white plug). If this is the case, then you can use any standard Chinese controller. Otherwise, you'd be better off to replace the torque sensor with a left side pedal sensor that lets you use a standard controller.

theres 3 wires on the plug red ,blue ,black,thanks for the help

 

[minexplorer]

He said that his one has the toothed wheel and sensors in, which means that it's the optical one, like mine. The plastic housing is the same.
View attachment 23333 View attachment 23334

for what its worth the same apart from a little silver component on the circuit board.Will a normal magnet cadence sensor fit this crank unit if the other sensors un rivited? Its prob the same design as the one you had years back Thanks for the help

 

[malkie0831]

FWIW the small silver component looks like a crystal.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

A normal PAS will work, but not with the controller you have.

 

[minexplorer]

A normal PAS will work, but not with the controller you have.

Thanks d8veh ,looks like i was right to have misgivings.

 

[minexplorer]

FWIW the small silver component looks like a crystal.

its got XDL6.0000 stamped on it . None the wiser after googling.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's a 16 MHz crystal oscillator. It's most likely used to give a fixed clock timing against which the pulse from the optical sensors are compared to determine when you're pedalling. The pedal sensor can then send a yes/no signal to the controller's rudimentary microprocessor.

Modern controllers have massive processing power, and have their own internal clocks, so they can take a pulsing signal from a magnet PAS and analyse it to determine whether you're pedalling backwards or forwards and how fast.

 

[minexplorer]

It's a 16 MHz crystal oscillator. It's most likely used to give a fixed clock timing against which the pulse from the optical sensors are compared to determine when you're pedalling. The pedal sensor can then send a yes/no signal to the controller's rudimentary microprocessor.

Modern controllers have massive processing power, and have their own internal clocks, so they can take a pulsing signal from a magnet PAS and analyse it to determine whether you're pedalling backwards or forwards and how fast.

You re a mine of information d8veh .I appreciate the knowledge you and others have provided for me, on my many posts regarding this bike

 

[minexplorer]

its output may look like a throttle signal (3-pin on the white plug). If this is the case, then you can use any standard Chinese controller. .

hi , d8veh has explained what i need to do to upgrade my bike regarding controller/ pas / adding a throttle. But im intrigued by your comment ,on the present optical pas sensor, outputting a throttle signal.
It indeed has 3 wires ,red , black ,blue. The throttle i have has the same .
I love experimenting and am curious.This old basic controller has only one speed and no seperate throttle connection. If the pas connection wires test 5v,ground and signal .Could it mean the bike could run with a throttle only,connected instead of the pas sensor.Thanks