Confused and looking for 48v 250w rear hub since Yose won't sell me 250w 36v kit with 15ah battery

Az. · Dec 24, 2023

throwawaychap said:
This is a Polish gentleman assembling a 20" front hub kit with a bag type battery that required the same cable. His came with the kit.

Keep in mind he installed wheel upside down. If you want your bike to be more weather proof, cable should go down to create drip loop.

Peter.Bridge · Dec 24, 2023

throwawaychap said:
Hi Peter!
Since I'm paranoid about disclosing things on the internet, if not too much trouble, I'll send you a PM of the incline portion of my commute.

At your weight any electric bike 36v or 48v will very easily cope with that !

saneagle · Dec 24, 2023

throwawaychap said:
I will happily disclose I spent a day or two without reading anything about e-bikes. I needed a breather for sure.

Being new to this I assumed block connectors were old technology, and not as good as the 'waterproof' plugs.

Having said that, would electrical tape not make these 'waterproof' connectors more waterproof? I was thinking of doing that.

Yose sell a "non waterproof" 250w rear kit (without the battery) with block type connectors and KT controller on Ebay. I think even the motor wheel comes with a block connector. And it's for freewheel only.

As it stands, I'm torn between compromising and going with Yose's 350w rear kit (without the battery).
Then getting a 17a KT 48v rated controller, and a KT-LCD5 display.
And a 48v battery off of Greenlance.

The reasoning is, since I'm getting a battery anyway, I may as well bypass the many people I have seen on Reddit either wanting to upgrade or upgrading from 36v to 48v systems.

Or Woosh's dgw22c 48v kit. The motor looks beefy, and it's surprisingly nice and convenient that it is rated at 250w.

The cons would be:
I'd have to stretch my budget a little (but that's on me not on Woosh since it's priced fairly).

Non KT branded controller and display, the controller is also integrated.

As per instructions, I'd have to change my rear rotor from 160mm to 180mm. I have found a Shimano adapter which I think would work, but I'm not sure if it'd give more clearance to fit the motor in. Since my calliper is mounted on the inside of the rear fork. I'll have to speak to them and see.

But the kit looks nice and neat though.

As for soldering when connectors do not match, I found Yose sell a battery cable that matches those special 'waterproof' connectors, with bullet plugs on the battery end. But it won't be necessary if I buy a KT controller with bullet connectors.

Minute 19:01 to see the cable I'm referring to.
This is a Polish gentleman assembling a 20" front hub kit with a bag type battery that required the same cable. His came with the kit.

You can make the waterproof connectors waterproof by dropping a dob of silicone grease in before connecting.

saneagle · Dec 24, 2023

Peter.Bridge said:
View attachment 55676 View attachment 55677

At your weight any electric bike 36v or 48v will very easily cope with that !

10.7% isn't steep for a 75kg guy. Any 36v system should be able to get you up that without pedalling. I'm 100kg and deal with 30% hills, for which 48v would be a much better choice, and maybe 20 amps to not have to struggle, though I only have 14A.

multiculture · Dec 25, 2023

Hi everyone, I just signed up to th forums. I'll really do appreciate any helpful solutions.. i have just purchased the Engwe 014. The LCD screen shows am riding on 58km/h and map shows I'm speeding on 24km/h. I have been searching the internet for solutions, will changing the controller and display give me more km/h?

Az. · Dec 25, 2023

multiculture said:
Hi everyone, I just signed up to th forums. I'll really do appreciate any helpful solutions.. i have just purchased the Engwe 014. The LCD screen shows am riding on 58km/h and map shows I'm speeding on 24km/h. I have been searching the internet for solutions, will changing the controller and display give me more km/h?

Why won't you start a new thread?

You probably just need to alter wheel size in options.

AntonyC · Dec 25, 2023

Another way to look at it is that a motor effectively takes up to X% off gradients. For a commute you already manage most systems/kits should make it a fair bit less tiring and slightly faster. Designing a system to let you do what you couldn't before or make your journey significantly quicker, that would be different.

On a route like yours there's no need to risk overvolting and my DGW22Cs do actually feel a bit ponderous, whereas the battery's OK as it's in the middle. A basic multimeter's useful and check parts here before you commit.

Are those handlebars comfortable?

saneagle · Jan 26, 2024

throwawaychap said:
Firstly, thank you for your input. And that's the thing, I don't do the commute yet. I take the tube, but I have over the past month or so been cycling a fair bit to get used to it again. I also have a exercise bike at home, which I do 20 minutes on every morning 5 times a week.

You mean the handlebar from the picture I posted of the bike I got?
So far I find it comfortable, it's a flat bar. I have altered it from 720mm to 640mm, which improved it I feel.

And as for overvolting, here's a bit of news where I currently am:

1 - I took a break from reading electric bike content for a bit, I needed it.

2 - Three days ago I saw Yose Power's 350w rear (cassette) kit (the one without the battery) on sale on Ebay for £186.

Much cheaper than on Amazon (£244) and even on Yose's UK site (£200 for 700c in black).

So I caved and went for it. The Ebay kit also comes with the battery cable with julet/waterproof (Sorry @saneagle) connector to bullet connectors. The ones on Amazon and on Yose's site do not. You have to order it separately.

These videos by a gentleman named Howard Ridge on Youtube made the kit look like fun:
(granted that he didn't have a PAS sensor installed, since he's got a Hollowtech BB, and the two he tried after he recorded the video only worked intermittently)

(there are more videos, it's a 6 parter, these are just the first two)

And unlike many reviewers on Youtube, he's not sponsored or affiliated with the company.

This lad also did a great job reviewing the kit fairly

I received the kit this morning and it looks good. I like that the motor is small.

However just an hour ago I had a thought, since I haven't bought the battery yet, if I could get a KT 17a controller and display and run it at 48v.

I'll be reading @Cadence's very informative thread again to see.
I have emailed YosePower and Aikema inquiring about this particular motor's RPM at 36v.

If it's high, then 48v is no good and inefficient; from the little I know.
But also, would Yose sell a 700c motor wheel with high RPM? I know the 328rpm motors are for 20" wheels, so who knows.

On Aikema's website there's no information about the motor's RPM; here are the two motors Yose Power use on their rear cassette kits:

Their 350w:

AKM95RX(RC1)_Aikema Electric Drive System (Suzhou) Co., Ltd_Motors_Batteries

AKM95RX(RC1)-Aikema Electric Drive System (Suzhou) Co., Ltd_Motors_Batteries-Rated Power: 250W/350W<br> Max Torque: 50N.m<br> Weight: 2.5kg

www.aikema-e.com

AKM95RX(RC1)
Rated Power: 250W/350W
Max Torque: 50N.m
Weight: 2.5kg
OLD/ dropout: 138mm
Rated Voltage (DCV): 24V/36V/48V

Their 250w:

AKM95RS(RC1)_Aikema Electric Drive System (Suzhou) Co., Ltd_Motors_Batteries

AKM95RS(RC1)-Aikema Electric Drive System (Suzhou) Co., Ltd_Motors_Batteries-Rated Power: 250W<br> Max Torque: 42N.m<br> Weight: 2.8kg

www.aikema-e.com

AKM95RS(RC1)
Rated Power: 250W
Max Torque: 42N.m
Weight: 2.8kg
OLD / dropout: 142mm
Rated Voltage (DCV): 24V/36V/48V

There's a lot more specs on the links, but it's interesting that the 350w motor is lighter and narrower, presumably the 0.3kg discrepancy being for the extra metal of the wider shell.

In other words, do I stop overcomplicating things and get a 36v battery. Or a KT controller and display along with a 48v battery that's £20 cheaper, meaning total extra spend would be about £50 for a 48v system.

I'm only contemplating that because I assume they wouldn't fit a 328rpm or even a 26rpm motor on a 700c/28" wheel?
And Aikema has the motor rated at 48v also.

Have a look at the posts from forum member Cadence. there is a lot of good info about these motors there.

When you run a 36v motor at 48v, the top speed and torque increase by 30%. It also shifts the efficiency curve up the rpm scale a bit. basically, peak efficiency is around 75% to 80% of maximum RPM. You wouldn't really notice any difference to efficiency unless you're very heavy, have exceptional hills or towing stuff. Heat is proportional to the square of the current, so it's oftem more efficient to keep the current low and get more torque by increasing voltage as long as you're using the motor in a sensible RPM range.

thelarkbox · Jan 26, 2024

Another happy 250w yose kit conversion user here.
I probably weigh in at about 100kg and i didnt convert a lightweight bike with my 36v 250w yose power kit ( 20-25kg? ) and if honest i would have to classify myself as quite lazy. not one for exercise for the sake of it.

I am very happy with the performance of the stock controller hidden in the battery sled and its 36v battery.
the motor has all the oomph needed to roll along at 15mph without any input from me and carry me up hills at comfortable speeds with a sustainable input from myself and without any of the distress, overheating, panting for breath etc, non ebike hill climbing can involve. (I happen to live uphill from everywhere or so it seems when cycling home..)

So I feel confident in suggesting you do not need to go the kt controller 48v battery route. But if thats what you want to do ...

fwiw there is a range of kt controllers designed to also fit within the hailong battery sleds, but not a dual voltage version that i could find. As i had similar thoughts while awaiting delivery of my yose kit

RollingChunder · Jan 26, 2024

throwawaychap said:
Yose Power's 350w rear (cassette) kit

Is the motor engraved with a rating on these?

throwawaychap said:
if I could get a KT 17a controller and display and run it at 48v.

You won't regret having the extra watts. I wouldn't worry about the motor windings unless you intend to pull heavy loads uphill. Worst case with a 48V is you use more battery when going slowly uphill because it's out of it's efficiency speed but with a 48v battery you'll probably have more watt-hours anyway.

esuark · Jan 26, 2024

ironic that, you'd then be living up to your forum name

saneagle · Jan 26, 2024

throwawaychap said:
One thing I have noticed, if I were to go the 48v route, I'd have to get new cables.

KT controllers have male 4-to-1 connectors (I think, based on what I am seeing on topbikekit)

And KT 4-to-1 cables have male brake sensor connectors.

Yose's are female.

The advantage of KT controllers is that you can choose one of 5 levels of assistance, and you can decide how hard or easy you want to pedal, plus they have a quick response to the pedal sensor. The crappy Yose ones have 5 levels of speed control, which doesn't give you control of the power because the power changes as you speed up and slow down. It's a shame because Yose used to provide KT controllers, but then they switched to the crappy ones.

The KT controllers have similar connectors, but the pin-outs are different, so you have to cut off connectors and re-wire them. Only the motor connector is the same.

The Yose controllers work. Most people are happy with them in their blissful ignorance. These sort of controllers are on most of the legal hub-motored ebikes. You only notice the flaws when you've tried something better.

Peter.Bridge · Jan 26, 2024

saneagle said:
The advantage of KT controllers is that you can choose one of 5 levels of assistance, and you can decide how hard or easy you want to pedal, plus they have a quick response to the pedal sensor. The crappy Yose ones have 5 levels of speed control, which doesn't give you control of the power because the power changes as you speed up and slow down. It's a shame because Yose used to provide KT controllers, but then they switched to the crappy ones.

The KT controllers have similar connectors, but the pin-outs are different, so you have to cut off connectors and re-wire them. Only the motor connector is the same.

The Yose controllers work. Most people are happy with them in their blissful ignorance. These sort of controllers are on most of the legal hub-motored ebikes. You only notice the flaws when you've tried something better.

I have a 48V bafang rear hub kit with included speed pedal assist controller. I got the Woosh bottom bracket torque sensor kit which includes a 36v/48v 15a controller with power assist levels + LCD and it is miles better - both the torque sensor (which is very sensitive compared with the original supplied cadence sensor) and the power assist levels

saneagle · Jan 26, 2024

throwawaychap said:
Did you experience a 36v system before your 48v Bafang? I know the numbers say 33% more torque & speed (not too worried about the latter) but in real life terms, is the difference that big?

To be pedantic, the difference is 30% - 10 cells vs 13 cells. Yes, the difference is substantial and very noticeable when riding.

A 48v system running at 15A feels the same as 36v one running at 20A. The 20A system will be less efficient due to the higher current. You'd need a physically bigger controller to deal with the heat, and it puts more stress on the battery, shortening its life.

36v and 15A is fine for riders up to 85kg. For heavier riders, fitness, the type of hills and the degree of heavierness become important parameters for deciding whether 48v is necessary.

Confused and looking for 48v 250w rear hub since Yose won't sell me 250w 36v kit with 15ah battery

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