Commuting bike

[Electric Transport Shop]

That's very true trex. Although good suspension forks will provide the most comfort wider tyres and ergonomic grips can be enough for urban riding. Rigid forks will provide a more responsive ride and improve handling on busy roads/cycle ways. The cost of front suspension is weight and general handling. Luckily there are plenty of options with and without suspension.


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[Wisper Bikes]

Good point regarding front forks.

We designed and manufactured the Wisper blade forks to fit perfectly with this bike, they are very light weight and make the bike very nimble.

We really don't like to use the cheap "spring in a tube" (Normally Zoom or Top Gun) suspension forks found on a lot of sub £1000 bikes, we believe they are worse than useless, heavy, ineffective and unless they can be locked out sap the riders input. We have compensated by using bigger tyres to give a softer feel.

The real news is that as from last week we can now fit the same decent forks that are fixed to the Wisper Torque bikes. The forks we use on the Torque bikes have pre-tension and lock out facilities. The bike is a little more expensive at £1,099.00 and we only supply in black however if you definitely need them, they are now available.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Shown here on the 905se, but is available on the 705se step through.

 

[trex]

Good point regarding front forks.

We designed and manufactured the Wisper blade forks to fit perfectly with this bike, they are very light weight and make the bike very nimble.

We really don't like to use the cheap "spring in a tube" (Normally Zoom or Top Gun) suspension forks found on a lot of sub £1000 bikes, we believe they are worse than useless, heavy, ineffective and unless they can be locked out sap the riders input. We have compensated by using bigger tyres to give a softer feel.

The real news is that as from last week we can now fit the same decent forks that are fixed to the Wisper Torque bikes. The forks we use on the Torque bikes have pre-tension and lock out facilities. The bike is a little more expensive at £1,099.00 and we only supply in black however if you definitely need them, they are now available.

All the best, David

big tyres sap energy just as much as bad forks.

 

[trex]

Scientific research suggested that mountain bike suspension forks waste about 1% - 2% of riders' input.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/245308958_A_Model_for_Determining_Rider_Induced_Energy_Losses_in_Bicycle_Suspension_Systems

 

[Wisper Bikes]

big tyres sap energy just as much as bad forks.

Absolutely, but when they are pumped to the correct pressure they are fine. At least you have the choice on whether to run them a little soft. 45psi (minimum recommended) will give a soft ride and 60psi (Maximum) will give you a normal ride without sapping any energy.

The tyres aren't huge like the new mountain bike style. they are 1.95" instead of our normal 1.85".

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Scientific research suggested that mountain bike suspension forks waste about 1% - 2% of riders' input.

I would agree on our Riese and Muller Mountain bikes with very high end air suspension back and front, with pre-tension (pre-load) adjusted for the rider. However these figures will absolutely not be bourn out with cheap "spring in a tube" suspension used on a lot of cheaper ebikes.

All the best, David

 

[trex]

if you reduce the tyre pressure to gain in comfort, you lose in energy. If you compare the energy efficiency of various elements: rims, spokes, tyres, suspension, the suspension is the clear winner in terms of comfort versus energy cost. That justifies the cost and the extra weight of suspension.
In my view, the choice between rigid and suspension fork depends on the rider's health and fitness. If you are fit and lightweight, you only need a modicum of suspension. The flex of the rims and spokes may be enough. If you are on the wrong side of 50 and wrong side of 13st, you'll need suspension fork.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Yep I agree 100% Trex, if a rider wants a light weight nimble bike go for fixed forks, and high tyre pressure. If they want a more comfortable ride, go for softer tyres or decent suspension, but it has to be good suspension with pre-tension and lock out facilities otherwise it's worse than useless.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Trex, just my opinion and the reason we spent a fortune on developing the Wisper blade forks. I have used the cheap style of suspension forks on my bikes in the past and know the issues. I am not saying they are not useful when selling bikes as a lot of people want suspension. I am saying however I would not put them on any bike I was involved with developing, especially now I understand how they sap energy for very little reward.

If a rider wants or needs front suspension, I highly recommend they chose a decent set of forks with lock out and pre-tension. If they cannot afford the extra it costs, go for light weight forks.

As I say, just my opinion.

All the best, David

 

[trex]

the choice of suspension depends very much on the rider. It seems to me elitist to say that 'otherwise it's worse than useless'. It's certainly not useless to the elderly riders. They need the suspension but don't need the adjustable preload and lockout. Don't be surprised if I tell you that I often explain what these are for.

 

[Electric Transport Shop]

Working in the Ebike industry it's easy for us to appreciate the benefits of quality components and the pitfalls of cheaper components. I think it's important for Ebike shops and distributors to help people understand these benefits and pitfalls so the once people make a purchase they love the experience and encourage more people to do the same.
That's not to say a cheap set of suspension forks won't do the job it's just that quality components are more likely to deliver a better rider experience. No one is wrong here and as always test rides quickly and most effectively help the decision process.


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[Wisper Bikes]

I think Trex as the market has become more sophisticated and we all understand more and more what works well and what does not, we all make changes for the better. Bikes are simply evolving and improving.

In my opinion, after building ebikes for eleven years, the cheap non adjustable suspension is really not worth having.

Far from being elitist, we have made a very good bike at £999. Again in my opinion, it rides better than a bike with suspension forks. The new Wisper blade forks cost more to produce than the cheap basic forks used by others in the industry. I gave up some profit to fit them, I hope this demonstrates my desire to produce the best bike possible for the money. Far from elitist?

We can offer proper, decent suspension forks for a little extra, if that is what the customer requires.

I am sure you need to explain what a lock out and pre-tensioner does, the same way I hope you would explain the way the gears and the assistance levels work? Not all customers are bike experts, it is our duty to present them with the best for budget. I honestly strive to do that. It would be very easy to bung on a pair of cheap forks but I like to think we go the extra mile.

Kind regards, David

 

[trex]

I agree with your philosophy towards building bikes but I still think that if you build a bike for the elderly, £30 spent on a suspension fork is better than £30 spent on a rigid fork.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I understand Trex but still feel strongly that if a customer can only afford "bad" suspension forks (your words) they are far better off with decent rigid forks, especially the elderly. They are light weight making the bike easier to handle and put into storage, will not sap energy and will not go wrong.

 

[trex]

I am still not convinced by your argument. There are loads of
simple, inexpensive suspension forks on the market for less than £50 retail. Even at this level, they offer more comfort than any rigid fork that I know of.

This is an example of a £50 fork:
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.SR-Suntour-XCT-V4-V-80mm-Travel-26-x-1-1-8-Suspension-Fork-2016_89719.htm?sku=310353

 

[anotherkiwi]

Scientific research suggested that mountain bike suspension forks waste about 1% - 2% of riders' input.

That is less loss than a gear hub! I vote with trex on this one - I am the demographic "wrong" side of 60 and having just built my first ever bike with suspension AND baloon tyres and I am loving the comfort.

I have the cheapest fork on the market with no lock out so pre-load is set to maximum so the fork works for the big holes and getting off footpaths in town but doesn't "pump" when riding up hill on the road. I don't notice the extra weight as much as I did when riding my friends front hub motor bike (full sus so 3 kg motor + 2 kg fork!). I will have to get used to the nose going down when braking hard (and not falling off...)

I can already say that one of my next big investments will be this: https://www.rosebikes.com/article/rst-m-7-single-shock-28700-c-suspension-fork/aid:399514 which weighs 800-900 grams less than a twin tube suspension fork and has the 40 mm travel needed for road and street riding.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I am still not convinced by your argument. There are loads of
simple, inexpensive suspension forks on the market for less than £50 retail. Even at this level, they offer more comfort than any rigid fork that I know of.

This is an example of a £50 fork:
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.SR-Suntour-

I am still not convinced by your argument. There are loads of
simple, inexpensive suspension forks on the market for less than £50 retail. Even at this level, they offer more comfort than any rigid fork that I know of.

This is an example of a £50 fork:

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.SR-Suntour-XCT-V4-V-80mm-Travel-26-x-1-1-8-Suspension-Fork-2016_89719.htm?sku=310353

XCT-V4-V-80mm-Travel-26-x-1-1-8-Suspension-Fork-2016_89719.htm?sku=310353

That's a much better set than the Zoom and Top Gun forks I am comparing, these have pre-load. Suntour make great forks even these basic forks OK for a towpath or over cobbles or on flat trails. Not much use for climbing if you can't lock them out, unless of course they are set to very hard.

Maybe I am not being as clear as I could be? Even bouncy "spring in a tube" suspension can be of use on very uneven roads, towpaths, cobbles etc but absolutely useless on a metalled road or steep climbs if you want efficiency and control.

Remember we could make more money by sticking the really cheap suspension onto the Wisper SE bikes, the fact is the forks we use are better. If people want proper suspension forks with lock out and pre-tension we can of course fit them.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

That is less loss than a gear hub! I vote with trex on this one - I am the demographic "wrong" side of 60

Me too I left 60 behind many moons ago!!!

A 1-2% loss of efficiency will be on very expensive high end suspension, likely soft tail, air etc and properly adjusted and tensioned. I would suggest on cheaper suspension on an incline it would be over 10%!

The forks you are hankering after look great, so light.

All the best, David

 

[trex]

air springs are no more energy efficient than coil springs.
Bad forks do the job poorly, that's all.