Commuter Advice

[Xt512]

Hi

A new member but not to electric Bicycles I am looking for advice.

I have a powercycle Salisbury Lithium that I have had for 3 years and done 1500 miles on so far. It is still in very good order and I have had little to do to it other than general maintenance. I am very pleased with it.

I however have a 30 mile round trip commute and start very early and finish late and the going is very hilly, the powercycle although very good feels low geared and takes me about 45 to 50 minutes each way.

Any advice on choices for a bike that is not too expensive but will perhaps cut my commute down also perhaps more comfortable.

I have been looking at the alien gs2 though not seen one, it weighs in heavier than the powercycle.

Xt512
Chris

 

[onmebike]

Hi

A new member but not to electric Bicycles I am looking for advice.

I have a powercycle Salisbury Lithium that I have had for 3 years and done 1500 miles on so far. It is still in very good order and I have had little to do to it other than general maintenance. I am very pleased with it.

I however have a 30 mile round trip commute and start very early and finish late and the going is very hilly, the powercycle although very good feels low geared and takes me about 45 to 50 minutes each way.

Any advice on choices for a bike that is not too expensive but will perhaps cut my commute down also perhaps more comfortable.

I have been looking at the alien gs2 though not seen one, it weighs in heavier than the powercycle.

Xt512
Chris

Hi Chris, you've had good service from your salisbury up to now, I wonder if changing is a good idea? I'd be interested to know how many batteries you've been through in the three years and what sort of performance you've experienced from them. A quick fix to the low gear problem may be a larger chain wheel. I think from a comfort point of view, an upright position without to much of a stretch for the handlebars appears to be favorite and I'm sure with a few mods the salisbury can be just as comfortable as any other.
The Alien certainly performs well from what I've read and is good value for money.

onmebike/Tony.

 

[Mussels]

I'd agree with the above, rather than change the bike just change the gears if it can be done. Your commute time doesn't look bad to me so don't expect to reduce it much with a new bike.

 

[flecc]

The Salisbury is one of the lowest powered e-bikes on the road and as you know, it's motor assistance does flag as it approaches 15 mph. As a result it does return low average journey speeds.

Unfortunately, because of the 15 mph assist speed law, even much more powerful e-bikes can gain only one or two mph increase in average speeds as a glance through the reviews by A to B magazine show. The benefit of the extra power is felt more in the reduction of pedalling effort needed, so large reductions in journey times are unlikely.

There's two best ways you can get larger changes in average speeds and reduction on journey time, but both do entail spending much more money.

The first is to buy one of the Panasonic powered e-bikes and reduce the size of the rear sprocket. Since the motor on these also uses the chain and gears, this results in power assistance to higher speeds, and on the hub gear examples assist speeds of up to 20 mph are possible. This does reduce the range and hill climb ability though, but in most cases the hill climbing is still more than adequate. This method does make the bike assist to illegal speeds of course, but since they only give power when pedalling, it's visually undetectable that it's the motor producing the speed and not the rider.

The second method is to buy a very light, low rolling resistance e-bike like the Cytronex, since although the motor assistance is only up to about 17 mph as standard, the bike's lightness and sporting nature makes pedalling to higher speeds much easier than on the average e-bike. This method only works sufficiently if the rider is fit enough to perform well.

A further way to get some of the changes you need would to be to buy the odd model that inherently assists to higher than legality, or which can be derestricted to do so. The Alien kit and the Wisper 905e models are suggestions, but the potential is not quite so high as that for the first two examples, assistance to about 18 mph and a bike heavier than the Cytronex with rolling resistance similar to the Salisbury.
.

 

[Xt512]

Hi Chris, you've had good service from your salisbury up to now, I wonder if changing is a good idea? I'd be interested to know how many batteries you've been through in the three years and what sort of performance you've experienced from them. A quick fix to the low gear problem may be a larger chain wheel. I think from a comfort point of view, an upright position without to much of a stretch for the handlebars appears to be favorite and I'm sure with a few mods the salisbury can be just as comfortable as any other.
The Alien certainly performs well from what I've read and is good value for money.

onmebike/Tony.

Tony

I can highly recommend the Salisbury up to now it is on its original Battery.

The hills kill the performance but it will do 15 miles or so and then needs charging I only use it as a pedal assist mode though. I think battery care has a lot to do with longevity of the unit. I tend to run it until it is showing 2 lights on the gauge and then charge it fully. It says to charge it in the Manual until the green light is flashing. I rather think that is overcharging it and tend to charge until the green light is steady, this is only my observation as the battery can get quite hot, if left till the flashing green.

Is changing the front sprocket an option, has anyone tried? There is obviously a chain guard mod but the pedal assist control is integral? Though to be fair I have not delved too closely there.

Thanks for your thoughts have you had a powercycle?

 

[Xt512]

I'd agree with the above, rather than change the bike just change the gears if it can be done. Your commute time doesn't look bad to me so don't expect to reduce it much with a new bike.

Mussels

Thanks for the comments.

Chris

 

[Xt512]

The Salisbury is one of the lowest powered e-bikes on the road and as you know, it's motor assistance does flag as it approaches 15 mph. As a result it does return low average journey speeds.

Unfortunately, because of the 15 mph assist speed law, even much more powerful e-bikes can gain only one or two mph increase in average speeds as a glance through the reviews by A to B magazine show. The benefit of the extra power is felt more in the reduction of pedalling effort needed, so large reductions in journey times are unlikely.

There's two best ways you can get larger changes in average speeds and reduction on journey time, but both do entail spending much more money.

The first is to buy one of the Panasonic powered e-bikes and reduce the size of the rear sprocket. Since the motor on these also uses the chain and gears, this results in power assistance to higher speeds, and on the hub gear examples assist speeds of up to 20 mph are possible. This does reduce the range and hill climb ability though, but in most cases the hill climbing is still more than adequate. This method does make the bike assist to illegal speeds of course, but since they only give power when pedalling, it's visually undetectable that it's the motor producing the speed and not the rider.

The second method is to buy a very light, low rolling resistance e-bike like the Cytronex, since although the motor assistance is only up to about 17 mph as standard, the bike's lightness and sporting nature makes pedalling to higher speeds much easier than on the average e-bike. This method only works sufficiently if the rider is fit enough to perform well.

A further way to get some of the changes you need would to be to buy the odd model that inherently assists to higher than legality, or which can be derestricted to do so. The Alien kit and the Wisper 905e models are suggestions, but the potential is not quite so high as that for the first two examples, assistance to about 18 mph and a bike heavier than the Cytronex with rolling resistance similar to the Salisbury.
.

Flecc

Thanks for your excellent thoughts inspiring me to perhaps modify what I have. The bike has original tyres so changing them out could improve the rolling resistance. Though a more powerful machine would reduce my imput after a hard day at work which may be welcome.

There has been a suggestion of a front sprocket change which appears perhaps possible, any history of any one doing this and feedback please.

Regards

Chris

 

[HarryB]

The second method is to buy a very light, low rolling resistance e-bike like the Cytronex, since although the motor assistance is only up to about 17 mph as standard, the bike's lightness and sporting nature makes pedalling to higher speeds much easier than on the average e-bike. This method only works sufficiently if the rider is fit enough to perform well.


.

To be honest the Cytronex only pulls up to 15mph and then only with a full charge. I think A to B tested a version with the 190rpm motor when they found it to be the fastest legal ebike. In reality a Panasonic bike with rear sprocket change is much faster than a Cytronex - unless you want to put in a lot of effort. You can get a Cytronex with the 190 rpm motor by signing a disclaimer.

 

[flecc]

Flecc

Thanks for your excellent thoughts inspiring me to perhaps modify what I have. The bike has original tyres so changing them out could improve the rolling resistance. Though a more powerful machine would reduce my imput after a hard day at work which may be welcome.

There has been a suggestion of a front sprocket change which appears perhaps possible, any history of any one doing this and feedback please.

Regards

Chris

Much of the rolling resistance is due to some motor drag at speeds above the assist limit, so changing the tyres might not have much effect. The motor might appear free spinning when you spin the wheel by hand, but on the road at over 15 mph it's a different matter. The Cytronex uses a unique kind of motor that has negligible rolling resistance.

The front sprocket (chainwheel) change only allows you to reach higher speeds for a given pedal turn rate, it won't help the motor to give you anything more and it could also affect the hill climbing adversely due to raising the overall gearing.

It's well worth you making the effort to travel and visit an e-bike dealer who will let you try various makes and models, since that will tell you how much improvement you might expect with a change of bike. I think that's essential before you splash out on a more expensive model.
.

 

[Old Timer]

My two penneth

If I go out with my wife or on my own for a cruise around I take my Powertrek 36v that I have changed the front chain ring up from 48 to 52, it`s a nice cruiser and very comfortable but is a bit heavy but having said that by using the gears I can get up most hills i want with ease.

If I planned to go further and wanted to get there faster I use my Evans alien conversion. There is no doubt that a decent MTB nice and light combined with the excellent Alien Barfang motor is a very fast machine (with rider input) Of course if you don`t happen to own a good MTB then it would mean buying one and converting it and that puts your mind to thinking about the Alien Gents ready made bike at(IMHO) a really good price when you consider the spec.
When I go out on my converted bike I really don`t mind inputting some effort because you really can cover some miles if that`s what you are after. There are alien Gents owners on here who all seem to be pleased and satisfied for what they paid and I`m sure the battery and hub will give you really good service.I have played around with a number of chainrings on my various bikes and there is no doubt that once you get it sorted then it`s well worth the trouble.
The alien Gents bike has a triple front chain ring, if you changed the large ring for something larger you would have a super on the flat and down hill bike that would shift along nicely, you would then have the other gears combined with that chainring that might well give you all you need but remember you would still have two other rings to drop down onto if you met a steep hill when tired on the way home. IMHO forget chain ring guards that can complicate your choice of larger rings, I`ve done away with mine and I have just moved my toe clips out a touch and using bike clips sees my legs well away from the crank. You can also buy pedal extenders that take the pedals out further or a different type of pedal( see NRG`s post)
It`s great to buy a ready made bike that you can just jump on but in my very limited experience customising a bike to your liking tends to give you more of what you need.

I`m on record at kicking against bikes like the Wispers because of price and for what I want a bike for it wouldn`t make economical sense BUT! I`ve said it before (and if you are not into bike tinkering) a Wisper bike with a 36V 14amp battery with their backup must be high on the list for a proposed commute of any distance. For me, I`d probably get bored because part of the enjoyment is tinkering but I suppose that say`s it all really.

 

[winterdog]

Old timer: thats why i need 2 bikes
one bike thats running in production
and a dev bike that will probably be off the road most of the time while i am re glueing it :0

i have still to make the dev bike
top of the list is cyclonex 190 wheel but im not spending cash till i see what the new wisper kit is like
as for the doner bike. gum tree has still not come up with the goods but i think something like a daws galaxy might do the trick

 

[Xt512]

Chaps

Thanks for the replies you have a wealth of experience which really helps understand the problems of this technology.

One of the main reasons in posting was to gauge the improvements in electric bikes since buying the Salisbury, which is still current. I am becoming slightly concerned on the rising prices of the batteries and their relatively short lifetime. I personally think battery management chargers are not as good as they could be and would be interested in your views.

 

[Scatty]

I think if i had to pay £520 for a battery i would be very unhappy

 

[flecc]

I personally think battery management chargers are not as good as they could be and would be interested in your views.

E-bike batteries depend on their internal battery management system (BMS) for charging control and don't use or need smart chargers.

The most important things are the design of the internal BMS, the cell chemistry and manufacturing quality and the current delivery adequacy of the battery specified for the motor power involved.

Today's state of the art li-polymer batteries are easily going beyond the two years that was about the limit for previous types, but it's impossible to be more specific without knowledge of the variables mentioned.

It's also worth bearing in mind that much of today's battery high cost is due to current economic circumstances and exchange rates, a bad time to buy. Before the credit crisis in 2007, it was being confidently forecast by some manufacturers that prices would fall over the following two years. Of course the crisis and it's after effects changed that into large increases.
.

 

[brucehawsker]

We are very happy with our battery technology which is proving robust for our clients across the UK, some of whom are using them off road. One reports of occasional power drop outs in the cold, but that seems to have righted itself. We are charging sub £300 at current exchange rates for a 36V16Ah nominal replacement battery which is cost to us. We do not like the HP model and believe people should pay for the bike in full, not pay for it with a future financial chaarge on the new battery.

 

[Scatty]

Where could i test one of these bruce?