I can't really judge from a single journey, but I'm cautiously optimistic about a worthwhile improvement in range, but that could be just as much to do with the finer control from the modified throttle as the tyres.
Comfort Bar Grips
- Thread starter Ian
- Start date
yes, of course! It'll be hard to tell which helps more, but both seem very worthwhile changes and it will still be interesting to see how the "combo mod" package helps efficiency & range Sprint on Kendas Vs Torq on Shwalbes
As the Torq has been getting all the attention lately I popped out to do an errand on the Sprint earlier, just in case it was beginning to feel unwanted.
In the past I've found the Sprint to be slightly harder work without power than the Torq but today it seemed very hard work indeed. When I got back I took the Torq, with it's new Shwalbe M+ tyres for a spin. Sure enough, compared to the Sprint with it's original Kendas the Torq was dead easy to pedal, demonstrating the significantly less rolling resistance of the Shwalbes. I also noticed the tyre noise on the sprint which is now absent on the Torq.
As the Torq has been getting all the attention lately I popped out to do an errand on the Sprint earlier, just in case it was beginning to feel unwanted.
In the past I've found the Sprint to be slightly harder work without power than the Torq but today it seemed very hard work indeed. When I got back I took the Torq, with it's new Shwalbe M+ tyres for a spin. Sure enough, compared to the Sprint with it's original Kendas the Torq was dead easy to pedal, demonstrating the significantly less rolling resistance of the Shwalbes. I also noticed the tyre noise on the sprint which is now absent on the Torq.
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Thanks Ian, that's a useful direct comparison & serves as further confirmation of the m+ lower rolling resistance: I'm aware that others have similarly replaced their kendas, but its very useful to get such a detailed first hand comparison from those who have, to assist in evaluating the switch
I suspect, from whats been said, that because of their more rounded profile and narrower ground contact, the ride comfort on m+ may be even more pressure-sensitive than the kendas & so correct & accurate tyre pressure may be more crucial to ensure the best ride: that may be a factor in your experience stevebee, though its not clear what size m+ you have and that may also be a factor. I'm keen to hear from anyone who has swapped kendas for m+ 38C if they can confirm this, or give more information on comparative ride comfort of the two tyres at similar pressures on poor road surfaces with the Torq, simply because that's such a major consideration in tyre choice for me with my local roads on the Torq
I think that the m+ rolling resistance seeming much lower than the kendas may improve range a bit (though much of the power at 15mph and above is used to overcome air resistance and will offset those gains) but I think the biggest gains are most likely to come from an increased likelihood of pedalling at "lower" speeds (especially, on a Torq, if gearing has been lowered) just because it is easier & so less motor use as a result
I suspect, from whats been said, that because of their more rounded profile and narrower ground contact, the ride comfort on m+ may be even more pressure-sensitive than the kendas & so correct & accurate tyre pressure may be more crucial to ensure the best ride
: that may be a factor in your experience stevebee, though its not clear what size m+ you have and that may also be a factor. I'm keen to hear from anyone who has swapped kendas for m+ 38C if they can confirm this, or give more information on comparative ride comfort of the two tyres at similar pressures on poor road surfaces with the Torq, simply because that's such a major consideration in tyre choice for me with my local roads on the Torq I think that the m+ rolling resistance seeming much lower than the kendas may improve range a bit (though much of the power at 15mph and above is used to overcome air resistance and will offset those gains) but I think the biggest gains are most likely to come from an increased likelihood of pedalling at "lower" speeds (especially, on a Torq, if gearing has been lowered) just because it is easier & so less motor use as a result
Don't forget Stuart that I run my tyres hard, anyone who run at lower pressures for comfort may not get the same benefit.
Russ uses M+ 38C on his Torq for commuting and reports very little comfort difference.
I've no doubt the thick puncture resistant layer's absorbency helps the comfort anyway. I'm finding very little comfort difference on the Q bike after the change from the Kenda 2.125" balloon tyres to 1.75 M+ running at average 10 lbs higher pressure.
Of course that hasn't the front motor so has a built in advantage.
.
I've no doubt the thick puncture resistant layer's absorbency helps the comfort anyway. I'm finding very little comfort difference on the Q bike after the change from the Kenda 2.125" balloon tyres to 1.75 M+ running at average 10 lbs higher pressure.
Of course that hasn't the front motor so has a built in advantage.
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Yes, thanks Ian, that's a proviso I should have said; probably still a benefit to be had with M+ over kenda at equal pressure though?
Thanks flecc for the further information on the little difference in m+ comfort over kenda: I hadn't realised how little difference there is in size between the two till I measured the kendas as 41-42mm wide! And of course they can run at about the same pressure anyway, so all seems ok
The M+ do look a lot thinner, but thats probably an optical illusion caused by the reflective sidewall band appearing to be part of the rim.
Ok, I'm planning to do likewise Ian - grip, throttle & tyres upgrade for the improved rideability, ease of use & peace of mind .
Just a couple of quick questions. Your mini "thumb throttle" grip section seems rather narrower than flecc's mod image: did you cut the original plastic throttle tube less than the 45mm from the control head flecc describes? The minimum length mine can be cut, and still "clip" back onto the control head afterwards looks to be about 35mm, which would give a short length of "throttle" comparable to yours, so is that what you did? I'm a bit worried about cutting it too short, so it doesn't re-attach properly, if you see what I mean?
Secondly, can the throttle be kept stuck open and how can that be achieved? Is it simply the positioning gives friction between throttle & handgrip? If so, does that work consistently i.e. not requiring periodic readjustment, or is there a more sophisticated & "consistent" way?
Thanks
Stuart.
.Just a couple of quick questions
. Your mini "thumb throttle" grip section seems rather narrower than flecc's mod image: did you cut the original plastic throttle tube less than the 45mm from the control head flecc describes? The minimum length mine can be cut, and still "clip" back onto the control head afterwards looks to be about 35mm, which would give a short length of "throttle" comparable to yours, so is that what you did? I'm a bit worried about cutting it too short, so it doesn't re-attach properly, if you see what I mean?Secondly, can the throttle be kept stuck open and how can that be achieved? Is it simply the positioning gives friction between throttle & handgrip? If so, does that work consistently i.e. not requiring periodic readjustment, or is there a more sophisticated & "consistent" way?
Thanks
Stuart.
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Stuart, the grips I used are quite long and because of the shape cannot be shortened by much without spoiling them. In order to keep the overall grip length reasonable I made the twisting portion as short as possible which as you've worked out is about 35mm.
I "weakened" the return spring by drilling a new hole for the end of the spring to locate in on the rotating part, in actual fact I drilled a row of holes on an arc extending from the original hole thus giving me a choice of spring tensions. In my view the small force now required to operate the throttle renders any friction device unnecessary although this could be achieved by butting the new static grip up to the twisting portion.
I "weakened" the return spring by drilling a new hole for the end of the spring to locate in on the rotating part, in actual fact I drilled a row of holes on an arc extending from the original hole thus giving me a choice of spring tensions. In my view the small force now required to operate the throttle renders any friction device unnecessary although this could be achieved by butting the new static grip up to the twisting portion.
In support of that the twist section can be narrower. My recommendation was to take care of various hand sizes.
In practice the twistgrip is operated by the arc section between thumb and forefinger, while the static grip is held by the pad of the muscle on the left hand side of the hand. The centre area of the palm does virtually nothing, so the twist section can be as narrow as is convenient and the only other measure of importance is the total width required for the width of the hand.
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In practice the twistgrip is operated by the arc section between thumb and forefinger, while the static grip is held by the pad of the muscle on the left hand side of the hand. The centre area of the palm does virtually nothing, so the twist section can be as narrow as is convenient and the only other measure of importance is the total width required for the width of the hand.
.
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Thanks Ian & flecc, thats all clear now
I already weakened my spring a little so making the throttle "sticky" may not be necessary, as you say. I noticed it appears you'd shortened the left grip slightly; your remarks on shortening those particular grips noted! (I'll probably get the same ones, since they look the most suitable & value for money).
Your description of operation of modded throttle, flecc, is just how I thought of it, so its just a matter of balancing hand grip width & "thumb throttle grip" width for ones handsize.
One thing, which I guess I'll adjust to, is that, while it feels fine throttling "backwards" with the "full grip" throttle, for some reason to me it feels intuitively & ergonomically better to throttle forwards not backwards with my left thumb... though maybe others will disagree!
Stuart.
I already weakened my spring a little so making the throttle "sticky" may not be necessary, as you say. I noticed it appears you'd shortened the left grip slightly; your remarks on shortening those particular grips noted! (I'll probably get the same ones, since they look the most suitable & value for money).
Your description of operation of modded throttle, flecc, is just how I thought of it, so its just a matter of balancing hand grip width & "thumb throttle grip" width for ones handsize
.One thing, which I guess I'll adjust to, is that, while it feels fine throttling "backwards" with the "full grip" throttle, for some reason to me it feels intuitively & ergonomically better to throttle forwards not backwards with my left thumb... though maybe others will disagree!
Stuart.
You could fit vertical bar ends and put the throttle on one of those, and then the action would be side to side.
And of course, the Twistgrip could go on the right, though the gearchange would need changing in some way.
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flecc said:You could fit vertical bar ends and put the throttle on one of those, and then the action would be side to side.
.... it might work! With vertical inboard bar-ends fitted like you had on your Torq Well, I've got the parts now for the "comfort, control & confidence" upgrade : padded grips & m+ tyres. I've played safe & gone for the exact same parts as Ian in each case, the "40-622 28x1.50 700x38C" marathon plus with smartguard (as already used by several Torq owners) since a set was readily available, and the specialized body geometry comfort II, "triple density" grips. The latter seem slightly less "spongy" than some other grips, but the softest padding appears well positioned and the entire grip well-shaped ergonomically, as you'd expect from the name, so a very good design overall I'd say .
I'm looking forward to the upgrade & I'll let you know what I think when done.
Out of interest, I'll try at least one padded grip with the Kendas before I fit the m+, to see how much damping they give.
Stuart.
: padded grips & m+ tyres. I've played safe & gone for the exact same parts as Ian in each case, the "40-622 28x1.50 700x38C" marathon plus with smartguard (as already used by several Torq owners) since a set was readily available, and the specialized body geometry comfort II, "triple density" grips. The latter seem slightly less "spongy" than some other grips, but the softest padding appears well positioned and the entire grip well-shaped ergonomically, as you'd expect from the name, so a very good design overall I'd say .I'm looking forward to the upgrade & I'll let you know what I think when done
.Out of interest, I'll try at least one padded grip with the Kendas before I fit the m+, to see how much damping they give
.Stuart.
It was back in May when I fitted the grips and tyres... in anticipation of the summer, didn't expect to have to wait until August though.
Seriously though, I've now done a few miles, grips are still very comfortable, I realise just how comfortable when I ride my Sprint which still has the originals. Have not had any punctures on the marathons, you may find them a bit tight to fit, getting the last bit of bead over the rim can be awkward as the other end keeps popping out, in the absense of another pair of hands I wrapped a bungee round the tyre and rim to keep it in. The original Kenda tubes are a bit fat (and heavy) for the m+ tyres so thinner ones might be a good idea.
Good luck with the upgrade.
Seriously though, I've now done a few miles, grips are still very comfortable, I realise just how comfortable when I ride my Sprint which still has the originals. Have not had any punctures on the marathons, you may find them a bit tight to fit, getting the last bit of bead over the rim can be awkward as the other end keeps popping out, in the absense of another pair of hands I wrapped a bungee round the tyre and rim to keep it in. The original Kenda tubes are a bit fat (and heavy) for the m+ tyres so thinner ones might be a good idea.
Good luck with the upgrade.
Thanks Ian, I think I'm delaying the wrestling at the moment will have a go soon though.
I've heard the m+ can be a tight fit sometimes so I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, your bungee tip sounds like one I've read too so I'll employ that if needed.
I got some extra tubes & rim tape too, in case they're needed - I'm not sure if they're the optimum size, I'd have preferred the smaller & lighter 35mm specialized ones in store but they were presta valve, so I got the Schwalbe AV19 700C/28" tubes with schraeder "auto/moto" valves to be safe - they're recommended by Schwalbe for the tyres and have the right valve for the Torq's rims too. A bit heavier, but all the harder to puncture, I hope....
Out of interest, I compared the weight of the m-plus with a specialized nimbus armadillo tyre (their tyre weight information seem hard to come by...), reputed to give quite good puncture resistance, and could hardly tell any difference - the m+ maybe very marginally heavier, but both felt rather lighter than I expected and amazingly so considering the wear they can withstand & protection they give.
Stuart.
will have a go soon though.I've heard the m+ can be a tight fit sometimes so I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, your bungee tip sounds like one I've read too so I'll employ that if needed
.I got some extra tubes & rim tape too, in case they're needed - I'm not sure if they're the optimum size, I'd have preferred the smaller & lighter 35mm specialized ones in store but they were presta valve, so I got the Schwalbe AV19 700C/28" tubes with schraeder "auto/moto" valves to be safe - they're recommended by Schwalbe for the tyres and have the right valve for the Torq's rims too
. A bit heavier, but all the harder to puncture, I hope....Out of interest, I compared the weight of the m-plus with a specialized nimbus armadillo tyre (their tyre weight information seem hard to come by...), reputed to give quite good puncture resistance, and could hardly tell any difference - the m+ maybe very marginally heavier, but both felt rather lighter than I expected and amazingly so considering the wear they can withstand & protection they give.
Stuart.
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Just one other thing Stuart, I found the circumfrence of the M+ to be 219 mm for calibrating the computer, this was measured very carefully by rolling the bike (with me sitting on it) the full length of my slabbed driveway several times and subsequently verified by comparing the speed and distance to that measured by my GPS, the average difference being less than 0.5%. By contrast my car speedo reads 7% fast, the odometer is not bad though.
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Thanks again Ian I must remember to reset it to 219mm once I've fitted the new tyres, before I rush out to try them .
I must remember to reset it to 219mm once I've fitted the new tyres, before I rush out to try them .
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I've tried the grips with the Kendas at my usual pressures, 45lbs front 50lbs rear, and they provide a very marked improvement in comfort due to both damping and well-designed ergonomic shape, which allow a much more comfortable hand position & should make them much more comfortable for long trips, important for ebikes .
I wouldn't say that I'd necessarily increase those tyre pressures though, and more damping could be had by wearing padded gloves with the grips, but I prefer riding without gloves and think the grips are fine for me.
From my initial impressions I'd definitely recommend them for any bike, especially Torq owners, though as Ian said previously a throttle mod is required for Ezee bikes.
Oh, and there is a woman's version of the same grip available which looks very nice & I've seen equally well reviewed - it could also be useful for men with smaller hands.
Stuart.
.I wouldn't say that I'd necessarily increase those tyre pressures though, and more damping could be had by wearing padded gloves with the grips, but I prefer riding without gloves and think the grips are fine for me
.From my initial impressions I'd definitely recommend them for any bike, especially Torq owners, though as Ian said previously a throttle mod is required for Ezee bikes
.Oh, and there is a woman's version of the same grip available which looks very nice & I've seen equally well reviewed
- it could also be useful for men with smaller hands.Stuart.
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