Clacking noise - Kalkhoff Impulse 2 motor

Hi,

I have a Kalkhoff Pro Connect 10 bike, purchased a couple of months ago.

I have done about 1,000 miles with it so far, mainly on flat towpaths (so with the minimum assistance most of the time).

Originally, some loud "clacking" noise came from the motor when I was using the maximum assistance level. However, today, the noise also started after about 2 hours when using the lowest "eco" mode one (basically, one loud "clack" per front sprocket full rev). Sometimes, pedaling in reverse for one full rev is fixing the issue, as if the chain was not engaged properly on the front sprocket.

I am sure it's not the chain, derailleur or anything else, as the noise stops as soon as the motor is switched off. The noise does not specifically happen either when changing gears, which are changing fine and the chain does not have to be changed yet.

I can see old threads regarding the Panasonic motor having similar issues, but this is an Impulse 2 Kalkhoff motor.

I am going to send my bike for a maintenance check to 50 cycles soon, but would be interested to know if other people have a similar issue with crank noise.

Thanks,

Tom

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50cycles Statement (Feb 2016)

'After our annual service meeting with Derby Cycles it was pointed out to us that a simple software update will rectify the timing issues with both Pedal and Torque sensors that previously may have damaged the motor.

The result of this was a slight clicking sensation in the crank arm that if continued without the proper update could cause damage to the pulls which in turn would cause a lack of drive assistance leading to eventually a motor failure.

However this does not effect any warranties and has been dealt with promptly in all cases. For those customers that have been caught out of warranty they have been offered for their motors to be reconditioned. This error only occurred in a small volume of models during 2013/2014 models.

It has also been discovered that this error could occur by fault of the customer when either dropping the bike or having a collision that impacted the motor such as kerbing the bike with the riders full weight.

This potentially could cause a fault to the sensors resulting in a similar problem as above. However these sensor are covered under warranty and are dealt with as such. Again this only happened with Pre 2015 models and has since been resolved.'

Edited September 3, 201510 yr by Tomtomato

I had a clacking noise on an Impulse 1 motor. My noise was not every rev but when significant pressure was applied to the pedals, for example when starting of in too high a gear. Even though the noise was not present when the motor was turned off, it was not the motor but the effect of the increased chain tension caused by the motor. I found that making sure the chain was properly tightened largely solves the problem.

So in your case, a problem with chain tension or chain/sprocket wear could be being exacerbated by the motor so only noticeable when the motor is running.

Also since your problem is once per rev then the chain may be hitting the chain guard or battery housing, again possibly more noticeable under load.

To be honest, issue is not happening when I pedal very hard without the motor, so I think it's coming from inside the motor, as opposed to other mechanical components still in use when I cycle with the motor being off.

The noise is also not happening all the time. Motor can be very quiet for 1 hour, and suddenly make that noise for 20 minutes and then stop again...It was usually happening before on a slope, when using the maximum assistance, so it could be related to motor torque/strain...

Heavy clicking noise happened again yesterday, after about 90 minutes (motor was quiet before that).

The motor was making some loud clicking noise, in all assistance modes. Clicking was stopping as soon as the motor was switched off (but still pedaling the same way), so nothing to do with the chain or "normal" mechanical components (bike has a normal derailleur, cassette, chain etc).

I was also pedaling hard going down on a slope, and with the motor off, the bike was not making any specific noise, so that's excluding torque impact on chain etc...

Sound recording: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0UKNeQV9ZQz

(sorry for the wind noise, it's difficult to pedal and hold a smartphone by the motor at the same time!)

Edited September 7, 201510 yr by Tomtomato

Hi,

 

I have a Kalkhoff Pro Connect 10 bike, purchased a couple of months ago.

 

I have done about 1,000 miles with it so far, mainly on flat towpaths (so with the minimum assistance most of the time).

 

Originally, some loud "clacking" noise came from the motor when I was using the maximum assistance level. However, today, the noise also started after about 2 hours when using the lowest "eco" mode one (basically, one loud "clack" per front sprocket full rev). Sometimes, pedaling in reverse for one full rev is fixing the issue, as if the chain was not engaged properly on the front sprocket.

 

I am sure it's not the chain, derailleur or anything else, as the noise stops as soon as the motor is switched off. The noise does not specifically happen either when changing gears, which are changing fine and the chain does not have to be changed yet.

 

I can see old threads regarding the Panasonic motor having similar issues, but this is an Impulse 2 Kalkhoff motor.

 

I am going to send my bike for a maintenance check to 50 cycles soon, but would be interested to know if other people have a similar issue with crank noise.

 

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom. I think I've read in another thread you had your motor replaced due to the noise problem. I had a load noise going up hill in power mode soon after purchase. I have since not had much of a problem due to mostly riding in Eco. However there is still a noise and I recorded this today. Could you let me know if this is similar to the problem you had https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lI6xOO_MRc

Thanks Roger

It's hard to say if it's the same noise (my own sound recording is a few messages up).

However, the Impulse 2 motor is supposed to be very quiet, so if you get any clicking or grinding (and if it happens only when the motor is on), then there is possibly an issue.

Mine was only doing some noise on the top assistance mode, but then was doing it almost all the time, in all modes.

The new motor is quiet in all modes. Most of the time, because of speed or wind, I can't hear it.

Another recording from today. Same story - going up a hill in top power setting

Roger. Your noise sounds different from Tomtomato. Did you have the motor hum noise before this clacking, and Tomtomato, how quiet is your new motor, do you get a low level hum/whirring noise or is it completely silent?

This might not be related, but a friend of mine has a Pro Connect fitted with the Impulse 2 motor. He cycles to work most days and hence does a lot of miles. His motor developed this clicking noise which was initially intermittent. Through continued use, the clicking became worse until eventually the motor failed to drive.

50C replaced the motor under warranty after diagnosing the cause of the problem as being failure of one or more of the pawls within the motor's freewheel. To some extent, this may explain why the noise was / is initially intermittent. He reported that by back pedalling momentarily, the noise went away. This may be because the damaged or broken pawl was not transmitting as much power from the motor when its position was changed by the back pedalling action.

The new motor now has some mileage on it and unfortunately there is some evidence of a slight clicking starting to appear.

This might not be related, but a friend of mine has a Pro Connect fitted with the Impulse 2 motor. He cycles to work most days and hence does a lot of miles. His motor developed this clicking noise which was initially intermittent. Through continued use, the clicking became worse until eventually the motor failed to drive.

 

50C replaced the motor under warranty after diagnosing the cause of the problem as being failure of one or more of the pawls within the motor's freewheel. To some extent, this may explain why the noise was / is initially intermittent. He reported that by back pedalling momentarily, the noise went away. This may be because the damaged or broken pawl was not transmitting as much power from the motor when its position was changed by the back pedalling action.

 

The new motor now has some mileage on it and unfortunately there is some evidence of a slight clicking starting to appear.

This is getting to be quite a concern. I also know that Osho, a member here, who lives close to me is having noise issues with his Tasman Impulse 2 motor now in lower gears, after only about 400 miles use. Would seem that Impulse 2 motors could have a serious inherent fault. I'm getting nervous about the Tasman we purchased in Feb, I seriously doubt it will be as reliable as the ProConnects we bought back in 2008 which are still going strong. We are going to have to use the Tasman a LOT more just to iron out issues before the warranty runs out in Feb 2017.

Nothing I read about the latest generation of Kalkhoff Ebikes changes my mind that the Panasonic powered bikes were the pinnacle, since when Kalkhoff have taken their eye off the ball. I am losing confidence in the brand, and whilst in the past have many times sung the praises of Kalkhoff bikes, I am now extremely reluctant to recommend the latest breeds. In fact, I often remark that a good well looked after Panasonic powered model might prove a better buy.

This is getting to be quite a concern. I allow know that Osho, a member here, who lives close to me is having noise issues with his Tasman Impulse 2 motor now in lower gears, after only about 400 miles use. Would seem that Impulse 2 motors could have a serious inherent fault. I'm getting nervous about the Tasman we purchased in Feb, I seriously doubt it will be as reliable as the ProConnects we bought back in 2008 which are still going strong. We are going to have to use the Tasman a LOT more just to iron out issues before the warranty runs out in Feb 2017.

 

Nothing I read about the latest generation of Kalkhoff Ebikes changes my mind that the Panasonic powered bikes were the pinnacle, since when Kalkhoff have taken their eye off the ball. I am losing confidence in the brand, and whilst in the past have many times sung the praises of Kalkhoff bikes, I am now extremely reluctant to recommend the latest breeds. In fact, I often remark that a good well looked after Panasonic powered model might prove a better buy.

My Kalkhoff Imlpulse is now 350 miles in, so reading these threads with interest.

No problems so far for me (touch wood).

My Kalkhoff Imlpulse is now 350 miles in, so reading these threads with interest.

 

No problems so far for me (touch wood).

Keep touching that piece of wood;). It would be good for all Impulse 2 motor Kalkhoff owners to keep in touch and report any motor problems here, so we can get a measure on how common the problem is becoming. I think I count about 5 so far, and Tlllson's report that a replacement motor is showing tell tale signs of incipient failure is a concern.

This is getting to be quite a concern. I also know that Osho, a member here, who lives close to me is having noise issues with his Tasman Impulse 2 motor now in lower gears, after only about 400 miles use. Would seem that Impulse 2 motors could have a serious inherent fault. I'm getting nervous about the Tasman we purchased in Feb, I seriously doubt it will be as reliable as the ProConnects we bought back in 2008 which are still going strong. We are going to have to use the Tasman a LOT more just to iron out issues before the warranty runs out in Feb 2017.

 

Nothing I read about the latest generation of Kalkhoff Ebikes changes my mind that the Panasonic powered bikes were the pinnacle, since when Kalkhoff have taken their eye off the ball. I am losing confidence in the brand, and whilst in the past have many times sung the praises of Kalkhoff bikes, I am now extremely reluctant to recommend the latest breeds. In fact, I often remark that a good well looked after Panasonic powered model might prove a better buy.

I’ve never heard of these problems with the Impulse 1 motor, so it might be that by upping the power and torque with the 2 they have run into a limiting weakness with some of the motor internals. That sort of thing seems to happen with e bikes more now in drive trains particularly, and there is something of a 1950’s Detroit power war going on between manufacturers.

I agree that the panasonic motors in the earlier kalkhoffs were very reliable but i now have the impulse 2 speed motor bought in may this year ,it now has 5000km on it that have been ridden hard with no problems or noises,does the speed and legal versions have different internals because it has been said they are the same even though there is a price difference?

Yep - hoping you are in the majority. And I must say, my experience with Kalkhoff has been solid so far.

Mine does make a clicking noise occasionally. I wasn't sure if it was the pedal, then the noise stopped when cycling in Isle d' Rey. Recently the noise returned intermittently :-( A bit of a worry, if 50 cycles know what is causing the issue I hope they will advise customers of the steps needed to resolve it. I'm still Very Happy with the bike. I don't mind replacing parts if they wear, I just hope it is just simple replacement of parts that have worn, preferably with an improved part

I think that the clacking noise leads to ultimate motor failure, which means a replacement motor. Don't think it's just a replace wearing part job. OK whilst under warranty, but 2 years can soon pass, hence my need to thoroughly test Mrs 'O' new Tasman by getting her off her old ProConnect, which she loves.

He reported that by back pedalling momentarily, the noise went away.

This describes exactly the issue I had. The clicking noise was going away when back pedaling, at least initially, but then this didn't work and clicking noise was almost always there.

Edited October 27, 201510 yr by Tomtomato

Tomtomato, how quiet is your new motor, do you get a low level hum/whirring noise or is it completely silent?

New motor is very quiet. To be honest, I can't hear it most of the time (given speed noise, wind etc). I have probably done around 300 miles so far with the new motor, and I haven't heard any special noise once, in any assistance mode.

Motor was replaced under warranty. As the London shop was not well staffed for a few weeks (due to recruitment pending), the 50 Cycles management team got involved, they shipped the bike from the London shop back to the HQ to get it fixed (rather than having the bike staying in the shop for too long), and then shipped the bike back to me directly by courier (a large box!) a few days later, at their own cost, which is commendable.

Unfortunately, the new wiring around the motor didn't look too waterproof (visible connectors etc.) and the computer cable was damaged/exposed in the process (still working, but outer wire protection pulled).

The bike went back to the London shop (now staffed), and all has been fixed now. Computer and handlebar control had to be entirely replaced by new ones (due to the design), which is not a small task, but it was done while I waited, so the bike was not off the road.

While it took several attempts to resolve fully the issues, everything is now fine, and the bike is great.

The old motor was initially very quiet too, apart from the clicking noise, which became more frequent progressively, under all assistance modes. Also, I could feel some vibrations through the pedals...

An easy way to know if the noise is coming from the motor or something else (pedals, gears etc) is just to switch off the motor/assistance and keep pedaling at the same pace.

BTW, I believe the motor is not serviceable, so the full unit has to be replaced in case of a fault, and Kalkhoff don't sell it as a part directly to end-users, probably to protect their intellectual property and prevent retrofitting (Bosch does the same with its motors).

Despite the fault, I think the Pro Connect 10 is a great bike, with a very transparent/progressive assistance, good build quality and components, and I don't think there are many competitors on the market, with such large battery and similar components.

Edited October 27, 201510 yr by Tomtomato

Keep touching that piece of wood;). It would be good for all Impulse 2 motor Kalkhoff owners to keep in touch and report any motor problems here, so we can get a measure on how common the problem is becoming. I think I count about 5 so far, and Tlllson's report that a replacement motor is showing tell tale signs of incipient failure is a concern.

I had the motor replaced on my endeavour s10 last year under warranty similar issues, with increased reports certainly becoming a bit of a concern.

My Kalkhoff Imlpulse is now 350 miles in, so reading these threads with interest.

 

No problems so far for me (touch wood).

I think i'm up to about 2600 miles now. No issues..