Choosing the perfect bike camera...

[morphix]

I've been doing some research over the past few days into video cameras, and basically trying to find the perfect camera for recording bike rides..

The main problems I personally have experienced when trying to shoot video while riding are as follows:

#1 Jerky picture / Camera shake

#2 Difficulty mounting and operating camera

#3 Poor voice audio pick up and/or wind distortion

So ideally, the perfect camera will have good anti-shake technology and an external mic input. Then you could hook up a mic to your shirt for perfect audio commentary and wind resistance. I'll come back to the mounting issue in a minute.

So here's what my research has revealed..

Compact cameras and "pocket" camcorders don't have optical anti-shake technology, you generally only find this in proper expensive camcorders. Pocket camcorders, if do they have anti-shake technology, they do it electronically.. this usually means the picture quality suffers.

There's a wide range of pocket HD pocket camcorders on the market now. Most copy the standard phone-shaped device with the lens on front and screen on back, and this is probably the most practical design for filming on a bike.

I looked at all the leading makes, and out of them all, I could only find TWO that have external mic sockets:

Kodak Zi8
Takes SD memory cards up to 32GB
Size: 113.2 x 62 x 21.5 mm (110g WITHOUT battery)

Creative Vado HD (3rd Generation)
4GB internal memory for up to 2hrs recording in HD (no external card support)
Size: 98.8 x 57.6 x 15.8 mm (93g)

Of these two models, only the Kodak has image stablisation (anti-shake) technology, which doesn't work too well according to reviews I've seen, (maybe a slight improvement). So it seems the quest to find a small camera with perfect anti-shake technology might be in vain.

Anyway these two cameras are still worthy of further investigation I think. The Kodak can be picked up for around £70-£80 mark and the Creative Vado 3rd Gen for around £66-£70. These prices are new.

Both cameras produce very high quality video even in VGA mode, but the Zi8 can do full 1080p HD, whereas the Vado only does up to 720p. This doesn't really matter as you really wouldn't want to be shooting bike rides in HD unless they're short ones, as the file size be massive.

From my research, I think the Creative Vado has better low-light video quality from looking at test videos. It also has a wider angle lens, making it ideal for filming on the road or in countryside..operation is very simple too, just one button to start and stop recording.

One other point I should make, is that some pocket camcorders have a run-time limit which means they shut-down automatically while filming after as little as 30 minutes...not good when you're filming a 1hr+ trip.. The Zi8's only run-time limit is the battery life which is said to be around 3hrs. Likewise the Vado's only limit is the battery which is good for at least 2 hrs.

If you forego the external mic feature, the Panasonic HD TA1 looks like a very strong contender for a bike camcorder as it has probably the best anti-shake technology available in a pocket camcorder...also it has stunning video, better than the Vado and Kodak, and the cherry on the cake..it's significantly cheaper than both..available for just under £50.

104.0 x 53.0 x 17.8 mm (93g)

So now back to the mounting question.. from my own experiments I don't think it's a good idea to mount a camera directly onto a bike as it will rattle about with the bike, picking up the slightest vibration and bumps, resulting in jerky filming. So what's the alternative? Wearing the camera? I've seen some shoulder straps which have phone pockets which might be suitable for holding a camera securely.. perhaps might need to make a hole for the lens.. the other alternative is to get some kind of case or cover with a clip and have it in breast pocket or on your belt. Either way, the phone-style cameras should be practically small and light enough to wear like this. Whether this will result in smoother video and less jerky filming, only testing will tell..

Does anyone own any of these cameras or have anything similar they could test? Also does anyone have any ideas about wearing the cameras securely at a good filming position?

I'm going to order the Panasonic and maybe one of the other two ext mic cameras this week to try out..I will post some test videos and a report after.. In the meantime, any comments, thoughts or suggestions welcome

 

[stevebills]

this is what u get for £500 very nice

YouTube - Geoff Kyle V.I.O. POV.HD Snowmobile Ride

 

[Scottyf]

Can you not use a larger camcorder in a back pack and use a bullet cam to pick up the picture. Friends used to do it years ago to do video on motorbikes.

 

[morphix]

Quick update...

After watching several test videos by owners of the 3 cams mentioned, I've decided to go with the Vado HD and ordered one from Amazon today for £71 delivered... the wide angle lens and the smoother video puts it above the Kodak Zi8 for me.. I'm now about to order an external lapel mic for it..

If the Vado proves to be too shaky I will order the Panasonic HD-TA1 to try..

I think wearing in a breast pocket is the only way to get a good angle and minimise camera movement, but we shall see soon.. I will shoot some test footage with the camera and report back when it arrives

I did see a couple of interesting test videos..

YouTube - E-Bike 1000w 48v - Panasonic HM-TA1 w/ fish eye
eBike rider with Panasonic HD-TA1 on helmet..

YouTube - Testing my recently purchased Vado HD
Vado HD mounted on handlebar

YouTube - My Vado HD Helmet. Test #3
Vado HD mounted in helmet on motorbike

 

[kitchenman]

Can you not use a larger camcorder in a back pack and use a bullet cam to pick up the picture. Friends used to do it years ago to do video on motorbikes.

Good shout! Off to trawl the cam corder forums .. I've got a HD cam corder sitting doing nothing until the next holiday ... sounds like the perfect application! ... If anyone has done this please let me know. If not, I'll report back and provide the gen.

 

[kitchenman]

I'm now about to order an external lapel mic for it..

... is that a generic mic with a stereo jack or a special for that device? I'm looking for something suitable to plug in my PSP .. The built in mic is pretty good (as heard in my broken spoke vid) ... but would be nice to cut out the wind noise which is always a problem ..

 

[morphix]

... is that a generic mic with a stereo jack or a special for that device? I'm looking for something suitable to plug in my PSP .. The built in mic is pretty good (as heard in my broken spoke vid) ... but would be nice to cut out the wind noise which is always a problem ..

I've found two mic's which are suitable.. there's the generic lapel mic with a mono 3.5mm jack plug (with a windshield) which clips to the collar... and then there's the stereo condenser mic.. The basic lapel mic's cost around a fiver and the stereo mic's usually more but I found a cheap one:


http://www.lzlsuperstore.com/product_info.php?language=en&currency=GBP&products_id=1157

Cheap lapel mic:

Tie Clip Lavalier Condenser Microphone - QTX - XL Pro Systems, Music Computers, Acoustic Solutions, Pro Audio Gear

Better quality more expensive lapel mic:

QTX Sound Tie Clip Microphone Stereo 173.623UK

Make sure your PSP supports a stereo mic input if you're going for the stereo one.. I think probably stereo is better for indoors or static recording, and a lapel mono mic for audio commentary while travelling.

What a difference an external mic makes! I've seen some videos of people who have used them on motorbikes with Vado HD cams, cuts out all the background noise, just crystal clear voice recording.

 

[Lloyd]

I have tried and broken many in my years trying to capture my off-road antics.

My two-penneth for what it's worth, I used a GoPro HD recently to film an ebike commuting video, and it was perfect. I comes with more mounting options than you can shake a stick at, including my fav, the chest mount. Zero shake! It is THE weapon of choice for downhill mountain bikers, for its anti shake mounts.

I am also going to use it strapped to the roll cage of my MR2 Championship car on it's debut race next weekend. Anyone who has driven over the kerbs at Brands will know there is no better test for shaking and vibration

If you search GoPro on youtube you will see plenty of vids filmed using them.

Highly recommended.

 

[morphix]

I have tried and broken many in my years trying to capture my off-road antics.

My two-penneth for what it's worth, I used a GoPro HD recently to film an ebike commuting video, and it was perfect. I comes with more mounting options than you can shake a stick at, including my fav, the chest mount. Zero shake! It is THE weapon of choice for downhill mountain bikers, for its anti shake mounts.

I am also going to use it strapped to the roll cage of my MR2 Championship car on it's debut race next weekend. Anyone who has driven over the kerbs at Brands will know there is no better test for shaking and vibration

If you search GoPro on youtube you will see plenty of vids filmed using them.

Highly recommended.

Thanks very much for that Lloyd. I will have a look at it, sounds worth checking out.

 

[Streethawk]

A purpose built action camera is the way to go. Generally they overcome camera shake by using ultra-wide angles. The Go-Pro HD is 170 degrees. You need at least 110 degrees to get something that will be fairly steady. I'm very happy with the quality of my Camsports HDmax Extreme, which is 110 or 140 degrees, at 140 its super smooth but not as obviously "fish-eye" as the Go-Pro. The Contour HD/GPS and the Drift HD are both also worth looking at. Image quality is similar on all four.

The Contour seems to suffer more than the rest on camera shake, but its the most ergonomic for helmet use. Laser alignment. External mic, but only if you open the rear door, so losing the water resistance.

The Drift is pretty big, but does offer a screen for playback.

The HDmax also offers a screen, but is a bit smaller. Laser alignment. External mic while water resistant. Handlebar mount as standard.

The Go-Pro is the only one water-proof, but they're all water resistant so rain shouldnt be an issue.

They're all between £280 and £350, and they're all pretty good. I picked the HDmax because it seemed the most well rounded package, and it's lived up to expectations, despite being the newest and therefore least feedback available online.

 

[morphix]

A purpose built action camera is the way to go. Generally they overcome camera shake by using ultra-wide angles. The Go-Pro HD is 170 degrees. You need at least 110 degrees to get something that will be fairly steady. I'm very happy with the quality of my Camsports HDmax Extreme, which is 110 or 140 degrees, at 140 its super smooth but not as obviously "fish-eye" as the Go-Pro. The Contour HD/GPS and the Drift HD are both also worth looking at. Image quality is similar on all four.

The Contour seems to suffer more than the rest on camera shake, but its the most ergonomic for helmet use. Laser alignment. External mic, but only if you open the rear door, so losing the water resistance.

The Drift is pretty big, but does offer a screen for playback.

The HDmax also offers a screen, but is a bit smaller. Laser alignment. External mic while water resistant. Handlebar mount as standard.

The Go-Pro is the only one water-proof, but they're all water resistant so rain shouldnt be an issue.

They're all between £280 and £350, and they're all pretty good. I picked the HDmax because it seemed the most well rounded package, and it's lived up to expectations, despite being the newest and therefore least feedback available online.

Thanks Streethawk for sharing your findings and recommendations..these cameras are a bit out of my price range budget, but I'm still curious. How do you mount your camera on a helmet or? And do you have any videos you uploaded we can see?

 

[morphix]

Vado HD has arrived

The little Vado HD camera arrived this morning nice and early so I've put it on charge and will do a test film on the bike later today. Will it come out jittery or steady? Oh the suspense!

It takes 4 HOURS to charge the battery (and that is in "express" mode, normal mode takes 8 hours!!). Initial impressions, the thing is lighter than expected and a tad smaller than I imagined, truly a "palm sized" camera.

I've been looking at ways of mounting it and decided wearing it (like people wear cellphones) might be the best way. The problem with mounting it in a shirt pocket is that firstly, it's too small in height and the lens wouldn't be high enough, and secondly with nothing securing it to pocket it's liable to move around or fall out.

Using the cellophane cover which the camera came in, I attached an extra long camera strap to it as a neck strap which seems strong enough. It looked like it might swing about though so the obvious solution was to wear it inside my top like this:

The only problem with this might be that it will be uncomfortable when the camera gets hot as it's next to the skin. Obvious solution would be to wear an under layer like a t-shirt...(a tad warm for that today tho) or perhaps look for a cover which will insulate against heat better. Will see how I get on once the battery is charged anyway.

I'm wondering if there is a camera harness available for small pocket cameras like this..if not I will maybe have a go at making one..

 

[mapman]

vaho hd

how did you come on with the vaho, good news i hope.

mapman.

 

[morphix]

Just got back

Back from a 1 hour ride to Bromsgrove. The ride was great, lovely sunshine and fresh air. But dear oh dear. What a disaster with the camera.

On the outward journey I wore the camera inside my top like on the photo I posted earlier.. I had shot a couple of test videos before I set off to make sure it looked ok, and it looked fine. The footage shot on the bike was a different story. The lens was partially obscured by my top making that part of the video pretty useless.

The return leg of the journey was also a disaster but for different reasons.. As I set off back I decided to try the camera outside my top. It seemed steady enough, wasn't swinging. Only problem was, when I got the camera out I must of pressed the zoom button and the zoom was fully in (the camera has annoying touch sensitive controls on the back which were obscured by my makeshift cellophane holder). So basically all I got for the return leg of the journey was a close-up of the road! I'm not sure how much difference it would of made zoomed out as normal. I will have to try it again.

Anyway in both cases, with the camera in and out of my top, camera shake was almost as bad as my Toshiba Camelio S10 footage. Bearing in mind the Vado has NO anti-shake feature. There was a fair bit of camera movement from side to side too, even with the camera inside my top. Video and sound quality was excellent though, using the HD mode (camera also has HD+ and VGA modes).

I will give it one more try and will experiment a bit more with Mr Vado, before I order the Panasonic HD-TA1 to see if its anti-shake is any good.

Will post an update shortly and hopefully some watchable videos!

 

[vhfman]

I have a Panasonic HM-TA1 and I think you will have the same problems as you have with the Vado. As it does not have any specific anti-shake capabilities. The only advantage of the TA1 over the Vado is the ability to use SDHC cards. The problem is mounting the camera in a position that is reasonably stable without being uncomfortable to ware. I have just got a cheap wide angle lens attachment to stick on the TA1, so I will see if this gives a better view. I have just received a couple of the cheap 720P HD keyring cameras from China and they actually give quite good results. But again it's a question of getting a stable mount.

 

[morphix]

I have a Panasonic HM-TA1 and I think you will have the same problems as you have with the Vado. As it does not have any specific anti-shake capabilities. The only advantage of the TA1 over the Vado is the ability to use SDHC cards. The problem is mounting the camera in a position that is reasonably stable without being uncomfortable to ware. I have just got a cheap wide angle lens attachment to stick on the TA1, so I will see if this gives a better view. I have just received a couple of the cheap 720P HD keyring cameras from China and they actually give quite good results. But again it's a question of getting a stable mount.

Hi vhfman thanks for the info. Amazon page for the HM-TA1 states:

The E.I.S. (Electrical Image Stabilizer) system helps to correct the kind of handshake blurring that often happens with compact cameras. Record all the images you want, whether you’re shooting while walking or taking self portraits, without having to worry about blurring.

Panasonic TA1 Full HD Pocket Camcorder - Grey: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

If you can find this feature on your cam, could you do a comparison and tell me if the EIS makes much difference?

I agree, mounting is a big problem and one that doesn't look easy to solve. I can't see how you can mount a camera to the bike or yourself and not avoid camera shake and vibration. Maybe you just need a bike with very good suspension? I don't have any suspension and my bike picks up every bump and uneven surface.. I thought wearing the camera might solve the problem but camera shake is still there..It may be the only way then to get a steady film is to use a specialised camera like Streethawk recommended..

The Vado has a very wide angle lens probably the best available as standard on a pocket camcorder which is why I thought I'd try it first. I'd be very interested to know how you get on with your wide angle lens attachment, keep us posted.

I'm getting a replacement for the MD80 cheapo Chinese mini DVR recorder from 7dayshop next week so I will get that a try (the first one they sent was busted).

 

[vhfman]

Yes morphix the TA1 does have built in EIS but it is not selectable it is just automatic like focus and white balance. EIS does not function when using zoom or taking stills. Although zoom is not a function you will use when riding anyhow! One more thing that I was not aware of before I got my TA1, and that is, it will only record continuously for 30mins. Even though the 8GB SD card can store about 1hr 20mins of 1080P video.
The video quality in 1080P is very good in bright light. It can be a bit noisy on a dull day which is true of most budget camcorders. As you say the dedicated sports/action cameras are probably the best but at a cost and still the problem of making a stable camera mount. The best videos I have seen are with the Go-Pro HD, but at £300 I can't justify the outlay. Uploading to Youtube is another matter and finding the best compression for files is the main challenge, so they are not too large but give good image quality. I use my large flat screen TV as my monitor so you can really see the difference in quality. I will let you know how I get on with the cameras and lenses I am experimenting with.

 

[morphix]

Thanks vhfman. Like yourself, I'm not willing to spend £300 on a bicycle camera even if it is the dogs.. heh. I'd rather find a cheap solution, I know there is one, we just have to find it! Actually I been having some ideas and doing some drawings..

 

[morphix]

Vado: Take Two

Earlier I went out again just down the bus route lane to the next estate, to try out the Vado HD camera again and see if I could get it right this time. I only just managed to get the resulting video uploaded to YouTube (isn't it getting slow lately?!)

Ok back to the video anyway.. Camera was around neck again, and just like before I tried it under the top poking out. Checked it was straight and and not obscured in mirror, but it obviously moved, as the camera lens yet again is partially obscured by my top. On the way back I took the camera out so it was resting on my top..

This was filmed in Vado's 720p HD middle quality setting (marked "HD" as opposed to "HD+") and here is the result:

YouTube - Vado HD 3rd Gen test video

Camera shake is still a big problem. Maybe even worse than Camileo? Need a better solution to prevent camera shake..


Toshiba Camileo S10 (filmed at lowest quality setting, "VGA" mode):
YouTube - ebike ride across town (2/3)

EDIT: After looking at the two videos again, I think Vado camera with the neck mounting is a bit less shaky than the bicycle bag mounting on Toshiba camera. The Vado also has no EIS (electronic image stablising).

 

[kitchenman]

Yes, the camera shakes a killer. The quality looks ok though. Depends what you want the images for I suppose ... I was looking for a cycle helmet that has a chin guard thinking that a chin guard would be some wind protection for an external mic - could be the answer for your VADO?