Chinese Mid-Drive Crank Motors

[Woosh]

But I bet they don't.

I agree with RobF here.
These bikes are not cheap. They usually are configured with hydraulic brakes and a half decent suspension fork.

 

[Woosh]

Hi Woosh, I expect the Bafang Max Drive Ebikes to have a street price of £1,250 based on an RRP of around £1,500 although I don't expect to see product until the Spring of 2017, those prices are conservative, if the volumes are high enough then a street price of below £1000 is not beyond the realms.

I am guessing we will see the 250w 36v models coming into the UK.

The price will be maintained going forward as the cost of lion batteries is about to plummet by around 30% as worldwide production is set to be ramped up by an order of magnitude never seen before, helped by the new higher density cell from Panasonic.

The Chinese can turn out cheap MTB's that hit the streets here for £200 there is little tooling to add to make a Max Drive Frame, add to that the Battery, Motor and Control Panel say £600 and there you go, total street pric less than £1000. with a good 30% margin in that price for the retailer!

I see the Bafang Max Drive as being quite disruptive to the ebike market, as the clean lines and intregated look, will see it taking business away from the likes of Bosch and Yamaha equipped Ebikes.

RB, thank you for the comments.
Sadly, Bafang charge an awful lot for their kits, the Max Drive is only marginally cheaper than the Shimano.

 

[Andy88]

With good negotiation This model is around £540 FOB, less if you go for a lower spec frame etc.

 

[Andy88]

Woosh spot on with the Bewu but I believe they will be bringing out a new model soon to compete with Bafang that doesn't need a spider tool.

 

[Woosh]

Andy, that bike has Tektro hydraulic brakes and Suntour XCM fork.
You won't get it for less than $850.

 

[Andy88]

Andy, that bike has Tektro hydraulic brakes and Suntour XCM fork.
You won't get it for less than $850.

Tony, you are right got mixed up it's $840 with the 8fun Max Drive

Its this one with the Bewu that's $650

Am I fired? LOL

 

[Rohloffboy]

Hi woosh, if the Bafang Max Drive ebikes that Andy88 has posted images of, are Max Drive bikes, then I fail to see how they can not come to market here in the U.K. for around £1000.
Or am I missing something.

 

[tommie]

I think we would be better waiting on the newer Ultra Drive coming onto the market,

http://www.szbaf.com/en/drive-systems/drive-system/max/max-fortis.html

 

[Andy88]

Hi woosh, if the Bafang Max Drive ebikes that Andy88 has posted images of, are Max Drive bikes, then I fail to see how they can not come to market here in the U.K. for around £1000.
Or am I missing something.

RB The first one is the MAXDRIVE the second (cheaper) is BEWU.

The 8fun BBS01B FOB is £240 on ebay they are selling at about £445 but you are getting support and I'm guessing the shipping won't be cheap.

Im waiting 4 MAXDRIVE price.

 

[Andy88]

The only slide rule you have on the maxdrive RB is the one on ebay for £1,075 however the company looks questionable.

For me despite the price I would feel more comfortable buying from WOOSH or AMPS where we would have some level of support.

 

[Woosh]

Hi woosh, if the Bafang Max Drive ebikes that Andy88 has posted images of, are Max Drive bikes, then I fail to see how they can not come to market here in the U.K. for around £1000.
Or am I missing something.

Andy corrected the info, the Max Drive bike costs $840 FOB, the Biwu $650 FOB. To translate these prices to street prices, multiply by 1.5 for a ballpark figure.
However, most established brands will need to add something to distinguish themselves from the ebayers, mainly to eliminate what they perceive as weaknesses. They typically add some frame features for example. In case of Woosh, we would certainly opt for a higher rated motor, a larger capacity battery, better brakes, better forks etc. They typically add about 20%-25% to the base configuration.

 

[Andy88]

Andy corrected the info, the Max Drive bike costs $840 FOB, the Biwu $650 FOB. To translate these price to street price, multiply by 1.5 for a ballpark figure.
However, most established brands will need to add something to distinguish themselves from the ebayers, mainly to eliminate what they perceive as weaknesses. They typically add some frame features for example. In case of Woosh, we would certainly opt for a higher rated motor, a larger capacity battery, better brakes, better forks etc. They typically add about 20%-25% over the base configuration.

Agree 100%
There is also a significant value placed on the experience and reputation of a company such as Woosh, personally I would rather pay an extra 1 to 2 hundred quid for that over an eBay bike.

However I would buy a normal pedal cycle on ebay or gumtree to have converted.

The Chinese prices look attractive however when you take into consideration freight, import duty and potential GRIEF I know who will be getting my wedge.

 

[Andy88]

Hi woosh, if the Bafang Max Drive ebikes that Andy88 has posted images of, are Max Drive bikes, then I fail to see how they can not come to market here in the U.K. for around £1000.
Or am I missing something.

Here is some real cheap crap but you will see them on ebay selling in droves for £150, China FOB £30 put a cheap hub set £250, work out of your garage you can compete with Halfords specials lol

 

[Rohloffboy]

Yep folks, some good points on pricing.

I am lovin the "Ultra Drive" but at 1000w will that not render it illegal to use in the UK, I did not notice a 250w version.

The 160nm Torque of the "Ultra Drive", knocks the 85nm of the Bosch CX into a cleft cap, although it is unfair of me to compare to the legal Bosch.

On the plus side, the "Ultra Drive" has ISIS Crank interface, far better than the out dated Square Taper design, in fact I was shocked and stunned to see that the Max Drive uses Square Taper, but that's probably because it's cheap and cheerful, in fact I notice the Yamaha CD motors also use Square Taper, which is a poor show for Yamaha..

Bosch of course uses ISIS.

My none ebike, has ISIS BB, and that has given flawless service since 2004, in fact the SKF BB that I use came with a 10 year warranty or 65000! miles which ever comes first, truly outstanding quality.

Of course in my example, the warranty is more to do with the bearings and seals, than the actual ISIS interface itself.

in fact I am amazed that none ebikes still come with Sqare Taper BB's surley ISIS should be the basic minimum standard in this modern age, especially as there is no patent on the ISIS design, and anyone is free to manufacture ISIS BB's.

 

[Andy88]

Yep folks, some good points on pricing.

I am lovin the "Ultra Drive" but at 1000w will that not render it illegal to use in the UK, I did not notice a 250w version.

The 160nm Torque of the "Ultra Drive", knocks the 85nm of the Bosch CX into a cleft cap, although it is unfair of me to compare to the legal Bosch.

On the plus side, the "Ultra Drive" has ISIS Crank interface, far better than the out dated Square Taper design, in fact I was shocked and stunned to see that the Max Drive uses Square Taper, but that's probably because it's cheap and cheerful, in fact I notice the Yamaha CD motors also use Square Taper, which is a poor show for Yamaha..

Bosch of course uses ISIS.

My none ebike, has ISIS BB, and that has given flawless service since 2004, in fact the SKF BB that I use came with a 10 year warranty or 65000! miles which ever comes first, truly outstanding quality.

Of course in my example, the warranty is more to do with the bearings and seals, than the actual ISIS interface itself.

in fact I am amazed that none ebikes still come with Sqare Taper BB's surley ISIS should be the basic minimum standard in this modern age, especially as there is no patent on the ISIS design, and anyone is free to manufacture ISIS BB's.

What's a ball park difference in price between taper and isis?

I can see you are a man who appreciates quality and when I was a lad you generally got what you paid for but in this fast paced world we live in its profit over quality and in many cases as flecc mentioned we don't always get what we pay for.

 

[Woosh]

RB, we use GXP bottom brackets for similar reasons.

What's a ball park difference in price between taper and isis?

I can see you are a man who appreciates quality and when I was a lad you generally got what you paid for but in this fast paced world we live in its profit over quality and in many cases as flecc mentioned we don't always get what we pay for.

About $25. The GXP on the Karoo costs us $35.

 

[Andy88]

RB what do Shimano use?

 

[Andy88]

Bugger me, what I know about bottom brackets you could write on the back of a postage stamp but I can see clearly, which looks more modern an aesthetically pleasing.

 

[anotherkiwi]

RB what do Shimano use?

Square taper, I have Shimano STEPS cranks on my GSM.

 

[Andy88]

I think the square taper must have been around for a while, seem to remember that on my old Dawes when I was 16.