Chinese Mid-Drive Crank Motors

[Andy88]

I did a bit of digging this morning on the availability of Max Drive bikes available in China and there are a ton of them in the offing as well as a Mid Drive I have never heard of called BIWU.

Anyway here is a sample.
MAX DRIVE CRANK BIKE

BIWU CRANK DRIVE

There is quite a significant price difference between the two motor types.

 

[Woosh]

The BIWU (or Bewo Technology, they like to call themselves) is a good 'un. Their motors are smoother and quieter than the Bafang BBS01. There is always a catch.
All CD motors will need re-greasing at some stage, you will then need to remove the chainring to access the gearbox compartment. On the Bewo, the chainring is screw-on, left hand thread, you will need a special spider tool. The Bafang and GSM have the chainring bolted, simple to remove.
The difference in price is mostly due to distribution cost.

 

[Andy88]

Surely Bewu would agree to ship the tool with the bike? From my research the cost is nearly 35% less than the of the cost 8fun.

I know Woosh's philosophy is about affordability and I agree with that but as RB said there must still be some gravy left for the dealer at a decent mid drive retail price around the £1295 price point.

 

[Woosh]

The Bewo spider tool is big and heavy (weighing about 7 kgs). I am sure if they redesign the motor, they'll use bolts.

 

[Andy88]

How on earth do they get 350w motor and 36v 8Ah Battery and 15a controller in these?

 

[anotherkiwi]

The motor is in the wheel, the battery and controller in the box at the back, plenty of room for 8 Ah. My questions are where are the foot pegs? and Who let the photoshop guy loose on her t-shirt?...

 

[Andy88]

LOL... Wouldn't want to try and put my feet on them.

 

[Rohloffboy]

I seem to remember a trade member on here saying that importers of Chinese ebike's are to see a hike in tariffs on imports comming into the e.u.

If that's the case, then the Bafang Max Drive bikes will end up being overpriced, it's a pity really as a Bafang Max Drive ebike, could get a lot more people out and about on a decent ebike, for around £1000.

Spending £2 or £3k and beyond is just totally out of the question for many folk considering an ebike, it's not that they can't afford it, it is more of a case that they just can't justify spending that much on a bicycle.

It is funny though how many roadie cyclists I know, who have a bicycle that has cost more than the car they own!

 

[Croxden]

Who let the photoshop guy loose on her t-shirt?...

I thought that's where the batteries were kept.

 

[Andy88]

Bloody well spotted croxden, they recommend you grease the nipples regularly.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Spending £2 or £3k and beyond is just totally out of the question for many folk considering an ebike, it's not that they can't afford it, it is more of a case that they just can't justify spending that much on a bicycle.

I am one of the few who can't afford one because I can't get a bank loan, some of us have complicated life stories...

I am willing to pay up to and over that sum if I could because my bike is my car so I am saving on fuel, maintenance, parking, insurance... I have an average cost per km of around 0.05 € including amortisation compared to that of a small car which is around 0.55 € per km. A Renault Zoe is slightly cheaper - around 0.50 €.

My ideal garage would be composed of:

- a trike - say a HP velotechnik Gekko with either a GSM / Bafang "mid" drive or a rear hub motor. Ride far, fast and in comfort. About 5500 € with Rohloff or pinion gear box.
- a folder for a quick run to the local shops/GF's place or for taking with me on the train when I go to my son's place or travelling further even afield by public transport. About 1200 € fully equipped

I can't justify the cost of a velomobile because the weather around here doesn't really require being better protected more than 2 months a year. A second hand Twizy can be had for about 4400 € which makes a 7000 € velomobile much harder to justify on a cost per year basis.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I seem to remember a trade member on here saying that importers of Chinese ebike's are to see a hike in tariffs on imports comming into the e.u.

This was eventually seen to be a rumour that was picked up on by the Chinese Gvt who sent messages to all manufacturers of ebikes in China warning them. After investigation it seems there was no substance.

All the best, David

 

[Rohloffboy]

Thanks for that update David, just a pity that the £ has bombed, will keep my fingers crossed that a bunch of containers arrive from China next Spring stuffed with Bafang Max Drive Ebikes of all shapes and sizes!

 

[Andy88]

The only warning drumbeat I hear is the proprietary frame required to house the motor.

 

[Rohloffboy]

Yep Andy88.
I have a good feeling about the Bafang Max Drive, although it's probably just a hunch.

So long as the proprietary frame, can accomadate future iterations of the motor all will be well, as motors wear out and future replacements need to be sought.

My aim would be to ship a frame over to my friends at Tilon in China and have them make me a copy in Titanium, and to include Sliding Drop-Out's to make it more IGH friendly along with cable guides for the Rohloff.

I estimate the cost to be no more than 500$ including shipping.

But before that I will be contacting them, to see if they are already aware of the Bafang Max Drive motor, in case they can design there own frame from the ground up, as that will save a lot of hassle and bring the cost down.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

That's correct the frames need to be specially made to accommodate the Max Drive. The specs for the housing or the housing itself to accept the drive is readily available via Bafang.

 

[Woosh]

I am not convinced that the Max Drive will sell well in the UK.
When you think that the average Chinese made e-bike retails at around £1,100, how much do you think the Max Drive bikes will go for?
There is also the choice between 36V and 48V. Which system would you go for?

 

[Rohloffboy]

Hi Woosh, I expect the Bafang Max Drive Ebikes to have a street price of £1,250 based on an RRP of around £1,500 although I don't expect to see product until the Spring of 2017, those prices are conservative, if the volumes are high enough then a street price of below £1000 is not beyond the realms.

I am guessing we will see the 250w 36v models coming into the UK.

The price will be maintained going forward as the cost of lion batteries is about to plummet by around 30% as worldwide production is set to be ramped up by an order of magnitude never seen before, helped by the new higher density cell from Panasonic.

The Chinese can turn out cheap MTB's that hit the streets here for £200 there is little tooling to add to make a Max Drive Frame, add to that the Battery, Motor and Control Panel say £600 and there you go, total street pric less than £1000. with a good 30% margin in that price for the retailer!

I see the Bafang Max Drive as being quite disruptive to the ebike market, as the clean lines and intregated look, will see it taking business away from the likes of Bosch and Yamaha equipped Ebikes.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I am not convinced that the Max Drive will sell well in the UK.
When you think that the average Chinese made e-bike retails at around £1,100, how much do you think the Max Drive bikes will go for?
There is also the choice between 36V and 48V. Which system would you go for?

Take the cheapest Bosch bike and undercut it's price by 20%, it will sell. I would say between £1150 and £1250 which puts the price just over the £1000 maximum you are so set on in the UK. But the customer must perceive the Max powered bike as having more value.

 

[RobF]

Hi Woosh, I expect the Bafang Max Drive Ebikes to have a street price of £1,250 based on an RRP of around £1,500 although I don't expect to see product until the Spring of 2017, those prices are conservative, if the volumes are high enough then a street price of below £1000 is not beyond the realms.

I am guessing we will see the 250w 36v models coming into the UK.

The price will be maintained going forward as the cost of lion batteries is about to plummet by around 30% as worldwide production is set to be ramped up by an order of magnitude never seen before, helped by the new higher density cell from Panasonic.

The Chinese can turn out cheap MTB's that hit the streets here for £200 there is little tooling to add to make a Max Drive Frame, add to that the Battery, Motor and Control Panel say £600 and there you go, total street pric less than £1000. with a good 30% margin in that price for the retailer!

You seem quite taken with the Max Drive, but it looks to me like no more than a Bosch Classic knock-off, probably with inferior control software.

It will only sell on cheapness, but early indications are it's not cheap when attached to a half-decent bike.

As regards batteries being 'about to plummet by around 30 per cent', only time will tell.

But I bet they don't.