Chinese Hall sensor problem

[B2stealth]

Hi all, please excuse my short to the point points.
I typed my essay style info / request before tea hoping to continue it after, unfortunately my 7yr old daughter doesn't know what open a new tab means and lost the lot.
So in short I have a Chinese bike called Crane.
The motor has got noisy at slow speed which quietens down as you build up speed, the throttle doesn't work from stand still and the King meter has error 24, hall sensor.
The hall sensor with the yellow wire has a constant voltage of .42 whilst green and blue wires go from .42 to over 4v as you turn the wheel, measured at the block connecter by the speed controller.
I now need to take the motor apart but with no make on the hub motor, just a number of XF1410VW1086, finding instructions has been impossible.
I wonder if any one can help me out with how I get it apart please ?
The motor is built into the wheel and is only the size of the brake disc.
I will try to get some fotos, but until I get the wheel out there is little to see.
Thanking you in anticipation and forever hopeful
Mark

 

[Nealh]

Hubs open in to ways they either have a side plate on the rhs which has 6 or more face plate screws or are screwed together.
The first one is easy to open (usually ), the latter needs a lever made up and often needs to utilise any tapped screw holes used.

A s you have said some pics will help us to help you.

 

[JuicyBike]

An alternative solution, which although more expensive is quicker and requires less skill, is to use a digital controller that ignores the hall sensors in the motor.

 

[B2stealth]

Hubs open in to ways they either have a side plate on the rhs which has 6 or more face plate screws or are screwed together.
The first one is easy to open (usually ), the latter needs a lever made up and often needs to utilise any tapped screw holes used.

A s you have said some pics will help us to help you.

Thank-you for your quick reply. I've just gone back out to the workshop to change the green and blue wires over, just to be sure it's the sensor and not a controller issue.
The hub is held with 6 screws on the rhs

 

[B2stealth]

An alternative solution, which although more expensive is quicker and requires less skill, is to use a digital controller that ignores the hall sensors in the motor.

Quicker and less skill....sounds up my street, depends on the cost ?

 

[Nealh]

Thank-you for your quick reply. I've just gone back out to the workshop to change the green and blue wires over, just to be sure it's the sensor and not a controller issue.
The hub is held with 6 screws on the rhs

Remove the wheel and undo the screws face plate should come of may need even leverage around the edges to pull it off, on the opp face possibly may need an inner axle retaining nut to be undone to withdraw motor. If you do open it worth chucking more grease in if needed also worth checking any bearings for rough rotation with your fingers. Usually one on the left hand side and a central larger core one.

 

[B2stealth]

Remove the wheel and undo the screws face plate should come of may need even leverage around the edges to pull it off, on the opp face possibly may need an inner axle retaining nut to be undone to withdraw motor. If you do open it worth chucking more grease in if needed also worth checking any bearings for rough rotation with your fingers. Usually one on the left hand side and a central larger core one.

Just back in from the workshop, just crossed wires to confirm the controller is ok-more useful snippets from someone with a similar problem to me on this site.
So it looks like the next 5 minutes I get I'll be taking the wheel out for a look.
Having just been looking at the wheel there seems some oxidisation build up around the screws and joint......let the fun begin
Thank-you for your advice so far, I'm getting happier by the minute.

 

[Nealh]

You can gently add some heat if things don't budge or try using a rubber mallet for gentle persuasion. Penetrating fluid may also help.

 

[Steve Dyson]

i am having a similar issue except one of mine shows a constant 2.25v

luckily the replacements arrived today and will be fitted tomorrow as need to get to the other side of the motor which is more difficult...

 

[B2stealth]

Hubs open in to ways they either have a side plate on the rhs which has 6 or more face plate screws or are screwed together.
The first one is easy to open (usually ), the latter needs a lever made up and often needs to utilise any tapped screw holes used.

A s you have said some pics will help us to help you.

I managed to take the wheel out and the six screws undone, the plate is still tight but it looks like I need to remove the sprocket set to get at the spindle nut.
The sprocket is a shimano mc but I don't have a tool to remove them. I did undo the ring on the sprocket but did it back up before I had a bench full of ball bearings.
Not so happy tonight.

 

[B2stealth]

i am having a similar issue except one of mine shows a constant 2.25v

luckily the replacements arrived today and will be fitted tomorrow as need to get to the other side of the motor which is more difficult...

Sounds like your where I wish I was. I ain't even got it apart yet and problems....oh the fun if it all.

 

[B2stealth]

i am having a similar issue except one of mine shows a constant 2.25v

luckily the replacements arrived today and will be fitted tomorrow as need to get to the other side of the motor which is more difficult...

Is yours anything like mine in the photo below and if so any tips you could offer a first time fixer would be gratefully received please ?
Warm regards
Mark

 

[B2stealth]

You can gently add some heat if things don't budge or try using a rubber mallet for gentle persuasion. Penetrating fluid may also help.

I removed the sprocket and bearings although not sure if that was necessary at that stage.
Undone 6 screws for hub and gave a few taps with hammer and wood, no movement so I left it overnight to soak in.
Went and gave it a few taps this morning and hey presto
Do I need to remove the sprocket carrier to further dismantle and get to the wiring side of things ?
Any help you can offer is gratefully received.
Thanking you in anticipation
Mark

 

[Steve Dyson]

I removed the sprocket and bearings although not sure if that was necessary at that stage.
Undone 6 screws for hub and gave a few taps with hammer and wood, no movement so I left it overnight to soak in.
Went and gave it a few taps this morning and hey presto
Do I need to remove the sprocket carrier to further dismantle and get to the wiring side of things ?
Any help you can offer is gratefully received.
Thanking you in anticipation
Mark

hi, no mine isnt like that but i am just having the same issue getting at the wiring, just off to bike shop to get a freewheel remover so that i can get to the wiring side...

 

[Nealh]

Quite a bit of rust in there B2, moisture/water as some stage has found it's way in. Noticeably there is a lack of grease, the hub will run a lot quieter and smoother if the planet gears and outer gear ring is well coated.
On the lhs side you may have to undo a retaining/bearing nut for the innerds to come out.

 

[B2stealth]

Quite a bit of rust in there B2, moisture/water as some stage has found it's way in. Noticeably there is a lack of grease, the hub will run a lot quieter and smoother if the planet gears and outer gear ring is well coated.
On the lhs side you may have to undo a retaining/bearing nut for the innerds to come out.

Yes definitely damp in there, a couple of the bolts were probably only held in by the oxidisation, I shall put a sliver of grease or silicone when I put the outer cover back on.
A bit of grease still remains around but not on the gears. When /if I fix/rebuild it-what grease should I use , I was hoping car cv (graphite) grease would be ok ?
Tonight's installment was to remove the sprocket carrier, so after struggling with a pair of stilsons for an hour I took it to my local bike shop to get a removal tool.
He didn't have 1 to sell but had 1 that unexpectedly fitted and got it off in about 20 seconds, we then chatted for an hour plus, putting the world to rights.
I'll hopefully get out to the workshop later but think I'll have to source a puller tomorrow to get the planet gears off.
Thanks for now
Mark

 

[Nealh]

Give a liberal slop of grease or a good cup full.
Graphite grease should be ok.

 

[B2stealth]

Give a liberal slop of grease or a good cup full.
Graphite grease should be ok.

With a tip of the hat-Thankyou.
I hope you can continue to lead me down this dark alley..
Grease. Will do thank-you.
I managed to find a puller, in the loft...last box as usual, I knew I'd got one somewhere.
I guess to remove the planet gears...
I've removed the circlip and 3 bronze washers and then you just pull the planet gears off, looks like a key in there.
Then to remove the rhs you just use the puller ?

 

[Steve Dyson]

just a quick update on mine with similar problem, i replaced all 3 hall sensors and they change values now going through the sequence, that seems correct but when i pull the throttle it still just judders so the next step for me is to look at the throttle hall sensor and see if that is goosed too, then if thats ok i will have to look at the controller... i will be ordering a cheap 48v 250W replacement and diagnosing the what may have blown on the original controller so i can understand how they are made and what happens at each stage.

i am already considering making one from an arduino and writing the code myself from some snippets of code i have found on youtube and github.

i hope you manage to get in and sort yours.

the halls were very easy to replace on mine, although i didnt like how precarious the board that they were soldered to was sat on the motor so i rewired it to a different spot and secured it better.

 

[B2stealth]

just a quick update on mine with similar problem, i replaced all 3 hall sensors and they change values now going through the sequence, that seems correct but when i pull the throttle it still just judders so the next step for me is to look at the throttle hall sensor and see if that is goosed too, then if thats ok i will have to look at the controller... i will be ordering a cheap 48v 250W replacement and diagnosing the what may have blown on the original controller so i can understand how they are made and what happens at each stage.

i am already considering making one from an arduino and writing the code myself from some snippets of code i have found on youtube and github.

i hope you manage to get in and sort yours.

the halls were very easy to replace on mine, although i didnt like how precarious the board that they were soldered to was sat on the motor so i rewired it to a different spot and secured it better.

Sound like a right headache but unlike me it also sounds like ya know what your doing.
I've taken planet gears off and key out, there is another keyed sprocket behind it
Haven't quite built up the courage to pull the last bit that side to expose the hall sensors.
Then I'm guessing the other side cover just pulls off.
So annoying not having any instructions to follow.
Do you know what's involved in using a hall less controller ?