Cheaper options for replacement battery for carrera crossroad e

[genericpurpleturtle]

Hi,

I have a carrera crossroad e ( https://www.halfords.ie/bikes/electric-bikes/carrera-crossroad-electric-road-bike-203790.html ) and recently my battery stopped charging. The lights on the battery flash a code, which suntour tell me means that one of the cells has likely failed and is unfixable.

The repalcement battery from Halfords is extortionately expensive, (£490 RRP although often on sale https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-parts/electric-bike-batteries/carrera-down-tube-ebike-battery-313wh-2019-237958.html ).

I've looked into having the battery recelled and many people I've spoken to have said they don't work on batteries for Carrera's as the BMS bricks itself if loses power while being disconnected from the cells.

I wanted to purchase a cheaper option. From investigating on this forums, it seems that for other Carrera bikes the battery can be bought from yole power, although I haven't been able to find a battery on there which seems comptabile with my bike (by visually looking at the pin connectors in the photos). Does anyone know where I can find a cheaper alternative battery? It's the same battery as the Carrera Vengeance and Subway models according to the halfords website.

 

[Benjahmin]

The fact that you haven't got any answers probably means that nobody knows.
In theory, any 36v battery would do the job, however there are a few caveats to that. If there is a comunication protocol between battery and controller (ie canbus), then only the proprietory battery will work.
The hub motor looks to be fairly generic, post some photos of any markings on it and the plug (should be on the framr near the motor). There is a possibility that, by replacing the controller, display and battery it can be got working. This would then all be generic parts so easily replaceable should it be needed in the future. Cost would still be less than the Halfrauds battery.
I'm afraid Halfords have a lousy reputation on this forum. Their bike systems have very variable reliability and their customer service likewise.

 

[matthewslack]

Genuine Carrera E-bike Battery 36v 313wh - Vengeance - Subway - Crossfire - BNIB | eBay

<p>Will fit a vengeance, subway or crossfire </p><p>Uk postage only </p>

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[genericpurpleturtle]

The fact that you haven't got any answers probably means that nobody knows.
In theory, any 36v battery would do the job, however there are a few caveats to that. If there is a comunication protocol between battery and controller (ie canbus), then only the proprietory battery will work.
The hub motor looks to be fairly generic, post some photos of any markings on it and the plug (should be on the framr near the motor). There is a possibility that, by replacing the controller, display and battery it can be got working. This would then all be generic parts so easily replaceable should it be needed in the future. Cost would still be less than the Halfrauds battery.
I'm afraid Halfords have a lousy reputation on this forum. Their bike systems have very variable reliability and their customer service likewise.

I've been led to believe that there is a communication protocol. The battery has about 6 pins which would also point to some sort of handshaking.

I haven't seen anything which looks like a controller, but I will double check my bike, and post pictures of the motor and connector tomorrow.

 

[genericpurpleturtle]

Genuine Carrera E-bike Battery 36v 313wh - Vengeance - Subway - Crossfire - BNIB | eBay

<p>Will fit a vengeance, subway or crossfire </p><p>Uk postage only </p>

www.ebay.co.uk

I actually saw this, it's not comptabile, it has a different connector at the bottom.

 

[matthewslack]

I actually saw this, it's not comptabile, it has a different connector at the bottom.

That is annoying!

 

[cyclebuddy]

Yose sell the Phylion SF-06 battery which was a common type for Carrera e-bikes up to 2018/19. Yours is the newer type... I've looked before but never found one either, but remind us (post a picture) of what it says on the label (maker identifiers) and some here would probably look again.

Your controller is in the bulge under the downtube by the crank.

 

[Benjahmin]

The coms will be between the battery and controller, and the display and controller. The motor is fed 3 phases plus sensor wires, no coms here.
So, by replacing display, controller and battery you end up with a repairable generic system rather than a 'put the whole thing in the bin' proprietry one.

 

[genericpurpleturtle]

Yose sell the Phylion SF-06 battery which was a common type for Carrera e-bikes up to 2018/19. Yours is the newer type... I've looked before but never found one either, but remind us (post a picture) of what it says on the label (maker identifiers) and some here would probably look again.

Your controller is in the bulge under the downtube by the crank.

Can't get to the controller unfortunately. It's located within the frame with a metal covering plate, and one of the bolts is half unscrewed and jammed. I think the previous owner must have thought about changing the controller to fit a generic battery (he did mention to me that, that would be his recommended course of action when getting a new battery) and stripped the bolt thread.

I have photos of the battery and motor. The motor doesn't say on it on the model, but the owners manual linked to from the halfords website says it's a "R250-OR142 rear motor".

Link for manual

https://washford.a.bigcontent.io/v1/static/Suntour%20HESC%20Owners%20Manual%20STL

I have seen some ads on facebook for second hand batteries which are much more reasonable. I don't use the bike enough to warrant getting a brand new one and the moment I don't have the time to work on a project to swap everything out. I may settle for a second hand battery if I can find one.

 

[Bikes4two]

Let me ask you this @genericpurpleturtle , if you buy a used battery, how are you going to know if its OK or not fail in short order?

My friend was given a 'broken' Carrera of some sort as the owner had just given up on the repeated failure of different things with zero support from Halford unless it involved handing over wads of cash.

The Carrera motor was still good and in his case, so was the battery and for around £100 he swapped out the controller, speed and PAS sensor and display and ended up with a very useable ebike.

But I'm guessing that sort of thing isn't for you so you're in the position that many folks find themselves in when having a proprietary system and not loads of dosh in their ebike budget .

 

[genericpurpleturtle]

Let me ask you this @genericpurpleturtle , if you buy a used battery, how are you going to know if its OK or not fail in short order?

My friend was given a 'broken' Carrera of some sort as the owner had just given up on the repeated failure of different things with zero support from Halford unless it involved handing over wads of cash.

The Carrera motor was still good and in his case, so was the battery and for around £100 he swapped out the controller, speed and PAS sensor and display and ended up with a very useable ebike.

But I'm guessing that sort of thing isn't for you so you're in the position that many folks find themselves in when having a proprietary system and not loads of dosh in their ebike budget .

It's a calculated risk. I ended up finding one on facebook for £180 as opposed to £490 from halfords. The guy seems trustworthy and says it's only had about 6 months of use. It's also a higher capacity than the ones sold by halfords for some reason.

I would be up for modifying my bike, but for the next few months I will have literally 0 free time due to various life circumstances. The added complication of having to extract a jammed bolt to get to the controller adds extra effort. I also literally only use my e-bike for when I'm cycling to social gatherings where I don't want to be sweaty. I originally bought it because I was rehabing from an injury, but I am almost fully recovered now so try to use my push bike as much as possible. At the moment I don't have the time, nor is it important enough for me to shell out for a new battery.

 

[ohoobiking]

Hey there! I've been dealing with the same model with the same issue for two months! Finally resolved it.

I hope that my trial and errors could serve as a reference for you and other riders stuck with OEM SR Suntour, ( or SRSUNTOUR, or Suntour )'s HESC system: controller, battery, display. And, adding some cheerfulness and progress to your project.

(My apologies first, since, I'm not a native speaker; and, I live in the US; and, US is not my home country. But, it somehow matters. I'll explain in the following)

1) your battery CAN be recelled.​

I fully disassembled mine, all parts disconnected, without knowing the "brick" risk. After disconnecting the BMS and leaving it in a box for a week, it came back functioning with no issue​

- see photo 1, 2, 3​

​

2) there are 2 PCB parts, not one small BMS.​

if you are planning to disassemble it, open a small gap first, rather than removing the full front cover right after unscrewing. Reason: a small PCB is mounted on the cover, accommodating the power button and indicators. It's connected to the major PCB by FFC (Flat Flexible Cable). The gap is wide enough to unscrew the small PCB from its mounting. Then you can safely take the cover off.​

- see photo 2 and 3. and you can see I damaged then repaired the FFC socket on the major PCB with my 10-min Youtube soldering class.​

3) Connector: 2 pins for power, 3 pins talking to the controller, 1 pin empty​

- see photo 4: battery connector's internal wiring look​

​

4) power up the controller needs signal from the 3-pin socket​

It is also where the 3 thin wires are connected​

- see photo 5, magenta colored parts​

(sorry let me answer a call from home, I'll keep updating tomorrow)

if you would like to read a bit further, here's a post I wrote earlier today. It may help with related info
https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/1ahvf9c/_/kqbiabj

 

[ohoobiking]

Hmmm.. just realized that I cannot simply edit my previous post one day after..

Let me see how I can put more info to make the SR Suntour battery solution wholesome.

to provide a better context, SR Suntour HESC system appears differently under various brand names by region:

• UK and EU:
  • Halfords (some models) such as Carrera Crossroad E
  • Raleigh (some models)

• US:
  • Raleigh (some models) such as Misceo iE
  • iZip (some models) such as E3 TRLZ, E3 Brio, E3 Simi;
  • interestingly, the iZip E3 series have adopted a lot of systems from the OEM vendors - from mid/ hub motor design, to SR Suntour / generic controller and battery systems. I saw people find batteries within the iZip E3 series, especially after 2019, in whole different shapes and sizes - e.g. E3 Sumo/ E3 Path+/ E3 Vibe/ E3 Dash, which contributed to a lot of confusion. I assume that this resulted many iZip forum discussion stucked at an early point, since the E3 naming is intuitively to simplify the product line, rather than doing the contrary job, plus some frustration. My girlfriend at least ordered pizza twice, when she read mixed information for too long, then needed looking for some mind comfort

• Japan and US:
  • Sanyo. I only tried it twice about 6 years ago from my co-worker (she's from Japan and likes Sanyo as a hometown produce since a kid). And by far it is still one of the most impressively comfortable ones, considering it was built around 2010 or 2011, small front hub motor. One full charge made her 5 round-trips to work, which is about 40km (25 miles) on flat city streets when I tried it.
    • later on I surprisedly learnt that the very early Sanyo model was also supported by SR Suntour. The difference is that the early HESC had two sensors collaborating for torque sensoring.
      • the PAS sensor (also names as cadense sensor/ ATS/ HESC crank/ and some other names) is still in the same place.
      • another sensor, which was mounted inside the chainguard case, positioned pretty much directly above the PAS sensor, functioned with a few magnets inside - is not there anymore.
      • I also saw it in early SR Suntour's product catalog round 2009 - 2011. but couldn't find anything further.

 

[ohoobiking]

So happy for you @genericpurpleturtle for well recovering! Wish you for the best. And hope that your following busy days will bring a lot of satisfaction and fulfillment.

Regarding @Benjahmin and @Bikes4two 's opinion of keeping the motor, then swap the rest - I really can't agree more. It's a nice motor, on a good frame for daily use.

If in the future you would like to extract the screw some day, a screw extraction kit would simply do the work. The trick is that the cover is not only screwed to the downtube, but also sealed with a thin layer of glue. Hammering on it sideways first with a rubber cushion will losen it up.

• The kit is quite available online. Or not sure if the there are libraries with tool lending department, or tool sharing organizations in your area. I used to borrow them from local library for free.
• for this specific screw: if you have a drill, no matter electric or manual, you can either
  • drill it through using a thinner bit, then remove the rest with pliers ( it's only 6-8 mm long )
  • or, if you have a Dremel, or rotating tool, cut a new dent for your screwdriver
  • it's a hex screw. So normally when it breaks, it breaks into a small round dent. Good for either ways above.

 

[ohoobiking]

@cyclebuddy allow me to borrow @genericpurpleturtle 's photo and explain some details for your reference:



Red: EBP30A093C1

• EBP: Electric Bike Power
• 30: capacity class (313.2Wh). You may find 40 with 417.6Wh
• A093C1: unknown

Yellow: SR P/N EBBA19-ST3609

• SR P/N: SR Suntour Product Number
• EBBA19: Ebike Battery 2019 product line
• ST: unknown
• 3609: 36V 09Ah (roundup of 8.7Ah)

Blue: self explanatory

Orange: 10ICR19/66-3

• (allow me to explain in a slight different way)
• ICR:
  • I: Lithium-ion
  • C: Cobalt oxide cathode
  • R: Round cell type
• 19/66:
  • battery diameter 19mm (roundup)
  • length 66mm (roundup)
• ICR19/66
  • 18650 Lithium-ion battery
• 10ICR19/66
  • one module contains 10 x 18650 batteries
  • in theory: 37V
  • in marketing: 36V
• 10ICR19/66-3
  • 3 modules in one package

I hope that this could help to some extent!