Charging electric cars

[flecc]

How many do 4500 miles or less? I am a low user at 5000..

Remember that most e-car buyers will be local users who do low mileages and rarely long journeys, e-cars not suited to those due to range limitations.

I'm now firmly in that bracket, the days of my up to 25,000 miles a year very long gone.

There's absolutely no economic case for me changing, it's solely environmental, to help with making the change which is becoming increasingly necessary.
.

 

[tillson]

I don't think there is any economic case for a e-car, buying one is mainly an environmental decision, though they do have some very beguiling characteristics when driving. That's especially true if most driving is done in urban and suburban situations.

Of course the environmental decisions will be progressively enforced on us, in London it's already started.

P.S. Monthly battery rental on the Renault Zoe is up slightly now:

Annual Mileage, ZE40 battery,

<4,500. . 6,000. . 7,500 , , 9,000. . 10,500.. Unlimited^

. . £59 . . . . .£69 . . . ... £79 . . . . .£89 . . . . . . .£99 . . . . . .£110
.

I can see your point and if a person wants an electric car, fulfilment of that desire does have a value.

I agree that the decision to buy an electric car will eventually be forced upon us. But I think that Renault are kicking the arse out of the electric car business with those battery rental prices.

 

[Gubbins]

Looking at myself (as we all do) my journeys are of 3 or 4 miles and rarely above 50 miles so an e-car should suit me, but last year my other half, who is not allowed to fly, was given the ok to travel by car so we set off for a holiday in Cornwall there and then.. All the foreplanning needed was to find acomodation, book a hotel half way, register with the local NHS surgery, fill up with petrol and go. All this took 2 hours but with an e car and the current charging infrastructure this 400 mile journey would be such a daunting task...
So we have a ways to go yet...

 

[flecc]

So about 12p per mile plus the cost of electricity. I'm not sure how that compares to the petrol equivilant.

No, £45 for 4500 miles is a penny a mile (100 pence in the pound)
.

 

[Gubbins]

No, £45 for 4500 miles is a penny a mile (100 pence in the pound)
.

Isn't that £45 per month ?

 

[Ducknald Don]

No, £45 for 4500 miles is a penny a mile (100 pence in the pound)
.

That's £45 a month, not £45 a year.

45 * 12 / 4500 = £0.12

 

[flecc]

That's £45 a month, not £45 a year.

45 * 12 / 4500 = £0.12

Yes, my mistake.

As I remarked earlier, there's no economic case for them.
.

 

[Gubbins]

Yes, my mistake.

As I remarked earlier, there's no economic case for them.
.

Factoring in depreciation doesn't help either.. Although this does apply to all cars and the only way to beat this cost is to keep one a long time.

 

[flecc]

I agree that the decision to buy an electric car will eventually be forced upon us. But I think that Renault are kicking the arse out of the electric car business with those battery rental prices.

They seem to be expecting a high rate of failure within 8 years with higher mileages, judging by those charges

At £59 per month for 4500 miles they collect £5664, just over the £5000 to buy the battery and not much for financing over 8 years.

But at £99 for 10500 miles they collect £9504, which covers an awful of failures, even after covering the finance costs.
.

 

[flecc]

I can see your point and if a person wants an electric car, fulfilment of that desire does have a value.

I agree that the decision to buy an electric car will eventually be forced upon us. But I think that Renault are kicking the arse out of the electric car business with those battery rental prices.

Perhaps not so bad for many though, bearing in mind:

Battery rental from 9.5 to 12 pence per mile, depending on annual mileage, so let's take that worst case.

Now add the worst case electricity cost of 5 pence per mile. (Minimum 3 miles per kWh at 15 pence per unit), so total 17 pence per mile.

That means on current average petrol/diesel prices (£5.45 gallon) it matches anyone running at 32 mpg. That and worse is very common for those who drive mostly in town or city. It's 27 mpg for me in my current decade 1.6 petrol car, so for me a small saving running with electricity, especially since my electricity unit cost is lower.

So it comes down to the car cost. A Renault Zoe, almost the same as a Clio, I can buy for under £13,000, around the same as a Clio. As long as I kept one for at least 8 years that would pay so there is an economic case for me.

But a new Nissan Leaf I can't get with the high discounts, meaning at circa £20,000 (rented battery) it would entail a huge extra cost.
.

 

[Gubbins]

Perhaps not so bad for many though, bearing in mind:

Battery rental from 9.5 to 12 pence per mile, depending on annual mileage, so let's take the worst case.

Now add the worst case electricity cost of 5 pence per mile. (Minimum 3 miles per kWh at 15 pence per unit), so total 17 pence per mile.

That means on current average petrol/diesel prices (£5.45 gallon) it matches anyone running at 32 mpg. That and worse is very common for those who drive mostly in town or city. It's 27 mpg for me in my current decade 1.6 petrol car, so for me a small saving running with electricity, especially since my electricity unit cost is lower.

So it comes down to the car cost. A Renault Zoe, almost the same as a Clio, I can buy for under £13,000 around the same as a Clio. As long as I kept one for at least 8 years that would pay so there is an economic case for me.

But a new Nissan Leaf I can't get with the high discounts, meaning at circa £24,000 it would entail a huge extra cost.
.

I must be doing well then at 47 mpg! And thats 7000 miles from new, mostly short runs, without ever resetting the computer. Not too good with Math, so how does that compare?

 

[flecc]

I must be doing well then at 47 mpg! And thats 7000 miles from new, mostly short runs, without ever resetting the computer. Not too good with Math, so how does that compare?

Much better of course, but I'm doing short runs with a petrol engine in London and nearby home counties congestion. I'm betting your local conditions up north are very different.

Coincidentally on the rare long runs I do, my same car also returns 47 mpg when driving moderately. Shows the huge difference between the two situations, mpg almost doubling.
.

 

[Gubbins]

Much better of course, but I'm doing short runs with a petrol engine in London and nearby home counties congestion. I'm betting your local conditions up north are very different.

Coincidentally on the rare long runs I do, my same car also returns 47 mpg when driving moderately. Shows the huge difference between the two situations, mpg almost doubling.
.

My 47 is an average as i can get up near 60 driving carefully.. The thing that kills it is the depreciation and with battery failure being a prospect e-cars over 3 years old will be worth peanuts. My last car lost 45% of its original cost in just over 3 years which is a lot to loose but i think e-cars will be much worse..

 

[Denis99]

We have owned a Nissan Leaf 24kw battery version for over a year now.

Range is around 80 miles typically, but the winter months suffer a little hit with lower temperatures and heated seats, climate control etc.

I will never buy another ICE car, the electric car makes so much sense for us.
Quiet ( don't underestimate this aspect), good for the environment, cheap to run, very low service costs.

However, we are well set up for running an electric car.
Solar panels on the south facing roof, a 7kwh charge Point installed for charging in around 2 hours normally, plus a Tesla Powerwall 2 battery which stores the excess solar energy for using to charge the car or run the home.

 

[flecc]

I will never buy another ICE car, the electric car makes so much sense for us.
Quiet ( don't underestimate this aspect), good for the environment, cheap to run, very low service costs.

Yes, so many e-car owners say this, and if I can get the electricity laid on for charging I hope to join them soon. I remarked earlier that e-cars are beguiling, and the near silence is a very big part of that.
.

 

[Denis99]

When I bought the Leaf, Nissan and the government were running a grant to help new owners have home charging installed.

Cost me something like £150 to have the 7kwh charger installed.

The 3pin plug charging is still an option, if you don't need to charge the battery quickly.

 

[Gubbins]

When I bought the Leaf, Nissan and the government were running a grant to help new owners have home charging installed.

Cost me something like £150 to have the 7kwh charger installed.

The 3pin plug charging is still an option, if you don't need to charge the battery quickly.

How do you manage longer distances?

 

[Denis99]

95% of our driving is well within the range of the battery.

However, on longer journeys, you need to do a little planning.
There are a steadily increasing number of rapid chargers being installed, mainly on the motorway system.

You can virtually fully recharge the battery in about 35 minutes.

We aren't fully set up for recharging yet, but more and more charge points are installed each month.
Won't be long until the charge network is reasonably good.

 

[anotherkiwi]

As for electricity costs, at the local charge points the electricity is free between 23:00 and 6:00... That does mean getting less than 7 hours sleep to take advantage of it unless working as a team

 

[Gubbins]

As for electricity costs, at the local charge points the electricity is free between 23:00 and 6:00... That does mean getting less than 7 hours sleep to take advantage of it unless working as a team

Is being an old fart an accepted trade for immigration?