Charging Ebike battery using an inverter from camper van battery

[Deleted member 4366]

That's right. Stick to the same charging current that's written on the charger that came with your battery.

 

[Cornish Pete]

That battery looks eminently suitable for charging with something like the iCharger. The only issues will be what sort of connector you would need on the end of the charging lead, and whether they use any sort of "smart" charging (monitoring temperature for example) which I doubt.


I had asked the dealer how the charger was connected to the battery he says it can be charged on or off bike with a simple plug in connector if that's any help

Peter

 

[Cornish Pete]

I contactedthe dealer he told me the battery can be charged on or off the bike with a simple plug in connection

Peter

 

[mfj197]

Sounds like you won't have any problem at all then. You will just need to knock up a lead with the same charger plug on one end and two 4mm banana plugs on the other end to plug into the charger.

 

[Cornish Pete]

Sounds like you won't have any problem at all then. You will just need to knock up a lead with the same charger plug on one end and two 4mm banana plugs on the other end to plug into the charger.

Ok Michael,

I downloaded the 1010+ user manual and it looks a bit daunting but I suppose I can work it out. Just as a matter of interest whats the bits and bobs attached to the side of the gizmo on the multi stranded lead. And when they mention power supply presumably the Van battery does that?
Just off subject does it matter how long the leads are from the charger to the bike battery (voltage drop etc), as it would be handy to charge the bikes outside the small van if possible but no big problem if not

Peter

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes, it does. If you charge at say 2.5A, 8A will be going down the leads from your 12v battery. You need pretty thick wire if you run any distance because there will be a voltage drop down the wire. Your charger won't work if the voltage goes too low.

You can calculate the drop using this calculator:

http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html?material=copper&wiresize=8.286&voltage=12&phase=dc&noofconductor=1&distance=20&distanceunit=feet&amperes=8&x=57&y=9

It shows that you'll lose 0.81v through 20 feet of 14g wire or 0.51v with 12g.

 

[mfj197]

Yes, the manual does look a bit daunting at first - but to be honest you won't need to use much of it at all. The charger can do some pretty impressive things regarding balancing the individual cell voltages during various stages of charging, and that is what the multistranded lead is for. However you won't be using that as you are using a commercially built battery pack with its own BMS and you won't have access to the individual cell voltages unless you take it apart. You will just be using the positive and negative charger outputs.

It doesn't matter about lead length, as long as you don't go silly. You have two options:

1. Have the charger outside the van at the end of the long lead. You will be drawing just over 3 times the charging current from your van battery as d8veh says, so there will be some voltage drop. However the charger is happy at anything down to 10 volts so it's got to drop quite a long way before troubling the charger (although of course your van battery will be dropping as well). However the better method is the one I think you were meaning, which is
2. Have the charger in the van with long charging leads going outside to the bike. Voltage drop is much smaller as you're only pumping say 2.5 amps through the wires, and also as the charger reaches towards completion it starts throttling back the current anyway, so the voltage drop reduces. For a normal charge the charge will finally stop when it reaches down to 1/10 of the set current, i.e. 0.25A if you charge at 2.5A. For the 20 foot wire mentioned above there will only be a voltage drop of 0.025V at that final current - not worth worrying about.

If you have any questions about the manual don't hesitate to ask. The most important settings are how to turn off the infernal beep when you press any key, and to prevent the buzzer from going non-stop when it finishes the charge!

Michael

 

[Cornish Pete]

Yes, the manual does look a bit daunting at first - but to be honest you won't need to use much of it at all. The charger can do some pretty impressive things regarding balancing the individual cell voltages during various stages of charging, and that is what the multistranded lead is for. However you won't be using that as you are using a commercially built battery pack with its own BMS and you won't have access to the individual cell voltages unless you take it apart. You will just be using the positive and negative charger outputs.

It doesn't matter about lead length, as long as you don't go silly. You have two options:

1. Have the charger outside the van at the end of the long lead. You will be drawing just over 3 times the charging current from your van battery as d8veh says, so there will be some voltage drop. However the charger is happy at anything down to 10 volts so it's got to drop quite a long way before troubling the charger (although of course your van battery will be dropping as well). However the better method is the one I think you were meaning, which is
2. Have the charger in the van with long charging leads going outside to the bike. Voltage drop is much smaller as you're only pumping say 2.5 amps through the wires, and also as the charger reaches towards completion it starts throttling back the current anyway, so the voltage drop reduces. For a normal charge the charge will finally stop when it reaches down to 1/10 of the set current, i.e. 0.25A if you charge at 2.5A. For the 20 foot wire mentioned above there will only be a voltage drop of 0.025V at that final current - not worth worrying about.

If you have any questions about the manual don't hesitate to ask. The most important settings are how to turn off the infernal beep when you press any key, and to prevent the buzzer from going non-stop when it finishes the charge!

Michael

OK Michael,

Thats very reassuring all i need to get my head round is the actual charging programme and as you told me in a previous post use the LiPo programme and bobs your uncle, I will email the dealer and ask for a photo of the plug to the bike battery then I can obtain a couple here and have them ready to make into leads as soon as I arrive back in UK late April as I want to get over to Ireland before it gets too busy.

I cant see a Private Message facility on this forum how would I get hold of you if I have any further questions? Just post on this thread?

Thanks to your help I have decided to go down this route but without it I think I would have given up, your help was like me trying to explain mobile phones and how to use them to my 87 year old mother (I gave up)

Peter

 

[mfj197]

Peter, not a problem at all. I've sent you a message (go up to the envelope symbol top right to see conversations or to start a new one) so you can contact me if you need.

Yes, just use the LiPo programme. You won't be balance charging as I say, you'll just be normal charging so you just need to follow the steps at the top of page 15 of the manual - "Charging a Lithium battery in normal CHARGE mode".

Hope the preparations for your trip go well!

Michael

 

[Artstu]

I'd be interested to know if anyone has worked out a way to use these chargers on the Bosch batteries. The standard charger has 3 pins and gives 5 volts to the centre pin, and nothing to the main positive pin whilst not plugged into the battery.

 

[mfj197]

I believe the battery uses a communications bus to talk to the rest of the bike electronics - the ubiquitous CAN BUS. The 5V is probably to initiate comms with the electronics in the battery. Does the battery have any voltage on its main positive pin when not plugged in to anything?

 

[Artstu]

I believe the battery uses a communications bus to talk to the rest of the bike electronics - the ubiquitous CAN BUS. The 5V is probably to initiate comms with the electronics in the battery. Does the battery have any voltage on its main positive pin when not plugged in to anything?

nothing, the battery has 5 connections, the bike has 4 pins, only the charger uses the central battery connection.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you want to use anything other than the Bosch charger, you need to wire it directly to the BMS or cell-pack. You could probably also charge through the discharge cables, but the battery would have to be switched on first.

 

[Artstu]

Thanks I knew it wouldn't be simple.

 

[handbaked]

what would be the solution for 13S? To recharge on of these - http://eclipsebikes.com/116ah-lithium-frame-battery-samsung-cells-p-1105.html

I have the batteries and panel already just need a 12V charger but can't seem to find anything above 10S on hobbyking....

 

[mfj197]

To be honest I don't know of any 12v chargers that will do above 10S. You might have to go the inverter route to charge a 48V battery unless you strike lucky elsewhere.

Michael

 

[Kendalian]

Following on from this old thread, I want to charge a Bosch 400 battery from the batteries in the camper van when away. I know I can pay £150 (ish) for a Bosch 12v charger that will do only one thing - and slowly. I would rather put the money into an inverter to run the standard charger which could also be used for other things. I know I will only get 80% efficiency but I do have 2 batteries and 200w of solar on the roof - plus I would tend to charge whilst travelling around so alternator going as well.

My question is, do I need to use a Pure Sine Wave inverter and how big an inverter do I need?

Many thanks in advance.

Kendalian

 

[Danidl]

Following on from this old thread, I want to charge a Bosch 400 battery from the batteries in the camper van when away. I know I can pay £150 (ish) for a Bosch 12v charger that will do only one thing - and slowly. I would rather put the money into an inverter to run the standard charger which could also be used for other things. I know I will only get 80% efficiency but I do have 2 batteries and 200w of solar on the roof - plus I would tend to charge whilst travelling around so alternator going as well.

My question is, do I need to use a Pure Sine Wave inverter and how big an inverter do I need?

Many thanks in advance.

Kendalian

... I just answered this on another thread. The Bosch expects to see 220v and will draw a max of 1.5amp , it is expecting to see a sine wave, but I am speculating here and expect it does not matter whether it is driven by a square or sine wave . It will be going into a switch mode supply anyway.
It expects to output a voltage of 36 to 41 volts at a maximum current of 4 amps
Peak power drawn is 330w and peak output power is 165w . Again I am speculating, but I suspect that the peak input power of 1.5amp would refer to inrush current and that probably power input is around 200w. Certainly my charger does not feel as it is outputting 200w of heat.
I am confident that a 350w inverter would do the business.

 

[Kendalian]

Thanks Danidl, I did see your reply in the other thread after I posted here. I'm still unsure about whether a pure sine wave inverter is needed - I wouldn't want to damage a brand new Bosch battery. I did e-mail Bosch but they only 'helpfully' replied to get one of their 12v chargers!

Cheers

Kendalian

 

[Danidl]

Thanks Danidl, I did see your reply in the other thread after I posted here. I'm still unsure about whether a pure sine wave inverter is needed - I wouldn't want to damage a brand new Bosch battery. I did e-mail Bosch but they only 'helpfully' replied to get one of their 12v chargers!

Cheers

Kendalian

.... Well as a famous person once said, they would say that wouldn't they ,.. but seriously, i cannot see why a square wave would be in any way detremental to the Bosch charger. All of these switch mode devices comprise a diode bridge and a high voltage capacitor before the switch and transformer, and the diodes and capacitor components will not affected by square voltage waveforms.