Help! charger trippping the fuse box

Jaxter

Pedelecer
Sep 13, 2020
104
23
hi all
So after coming in from shopping on my Fiido d4s i thought i would put the bike on charge, when plugging the charger into the socket it tripped the fuse box. I tried 4 more times including changing the socket i was using and the same result.
Is my next move to just order a new charger.
Thanks
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,832
2,756
Winchester
The simplest, safest answer is, yes, get a new charger.

If you've got a meter and know how to use it you may be able to track down the issue and fix it ... but I guess in that case you would have tried before asking the question. It could be that a generic charger will do the job as well as an official Fiido one, it's probably a standard 2amp 42v one; there are other people here more competent than me who will clarify. You'll need to be careful of connector type, and VERY careful of polarity.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Woosh

Jaxter

Pedelecer
Sep 13, 2020
104
23
Thanks for the reply, i have just ordered a new one direct from fiido, thougt it best not to take any chances, fingers crossed it solves my problem, will update thread when it arrives.
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
hi all
So after coming in from shopping on my Fiido d4s i thought i would put the bike on charge, when plugging the charger into the socket it tripped the fuse box. I tried 4 more times including changing the socket i was using and the same result.
Is my next move to just order a new charger.
Thanks
assuming that you live in the UK, that should not happen at all, even if the charger is drawing too much current.

The reason being that with a 13 amp plug, you should only use a fuse of the lowest currect rating IN THE PLUG!

That fuse should blow first, not the fusebox......If you haven't got a ground fault sensing fusebox, then I believe your charger is defective, but so is the fuse in the plug, as a ring main has (from memory) something like a 40 amp fuse.......

The defective charger (I believe) has alerted you to OTHER problems, that could have shocked someone.

But if you do have a ground fault sensing, then everything is probably OK, and it is just telling you that the charger has a short to ground.....
I use an extra ground fault breaker on any circuits that may get problems, for instace external power to a garage, a lawnmower etc.. They are cheap to buy and save you dropping your mains supply, as the ones for portable devices are more sensitive and trip first...
regards
Andy
 

Jaxter

Pedelecer
Sep 13, 2020
104
23
Thanks Andy i will look into getting a ground fault breaker, to head off any problems in the future, i must say the Fiido d4s has been a solid and reliable bike since i brought it the only problem being broken spokes on the back wheel, but i am 18st and often had added weight of shopping in the panniers as well so to be expected, suprised it lasted over a year. This got me to replace the whole lot with stronger ones at lbs, but the charger always seemed flimsy and cheap.
 

Benjahmin

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 10, 2014
2,590
1,747
70
West Wales
There are two types of breaker in the box.
The individual circuit breakers are overload devices of various capacities. For a circuit of sockets (UK)it is likely to be 32A, but could be 16A. This will only trip under overload conditions such as a short circuit.
The other device is wider and covers a group of circuits. This is called an RCD (residual current device) and monitors the live, neutral and earth. If there is any imbalance between the input and return into this device, it will trip.
I suspect it is this one tripping and it is merely doing it's job, you do not need necessarily a new one.
RCD's will trip if there is a neutral to earth fault - as is likely here.
If it is only tripping when you plug the charger in then this is the suspect device. As you've ordered a new one just wait and try it. If the problem goes away then it's likely the cause.
If it trips with the new one then further investigation is needed. But a new RCD will not cure it - it's just telling you something is amiss, that's it's job.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: MontyPAS and Nealh

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,917
8,533
61
West Sx RH
No different to other electrical appliances, a short will simply cause the RCD tripping (30ma) so as Ben says it is either the charger or battery charge point causing the issue. Only needs on minute strand of wire or a bit of insulation wear between the two to occur.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Bikes4two

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
There are two types of breaker in the box.
The individual circuit breakers are overload devices of various capacities. For a circuit of sockets (UK)it is likely to be 32A, but could be 16A. This will only trip under overload conditions such as a short circuit.
The other device is wider and covers a group of circuits. This is called an RCD (residual current device) and monitors the live, neutral and earth. If there is any imbalance between the input and return into this device, it will trip.
I suspect it is this one tripping and it is merely doing it's job, you do not need necessarily a new one.
RCD's will trip if there is a neutral to earth fault - as is likely here.
If it is only tripping when you plug the charger in then this is the suspect device. As you've ordered a new one just wait and try it. If the problem goes away then it's likely the cause.
If it trips with the new one then further investigation is needed. But a new RCD will not cure it - it's just telling you something is amiss, that's it's job.
An RCD is there to prevent electricity taking the wrong path, via a human for example, to ground.
It only monitors Phase and Neutral currents, but not earth, as there is simply no need to monitor earth (won a few pints over the years from Electricians in pubs with that statement!), for any reason at all!
What an RCD does, is it compares the phase current, against the neutral current, which when working correctly, must be opposite, but otherwise equal & identical. Thats how things should work.
If they are not identical, then the power has found a new way back to earth, this causes the breaker to almost instantly to drop. From memory, 30 msecs or so. It is still quite painful though, even though it is most unlikely to kill anyone, but if there is someone super sensitive, there are lower current value RCDs on the open market if required.
I remember my Father and I rewiring my then UK abode, a 15 Century double house, in 1977, and he recommended one of these devices, which were I believe, not in many houses at that time.
It was particularly good at detecting that the kettle needed a new element (porous), and other than my step son, pressing the test switch occasionally, it was fine. (they need to be tested regularly anyway, once a year is a memory......)
i do remember that the very early ones operated slightly differently than the ones made over the last 40 years or so, but I do not remember what that difference was anymore, and those early versions should have been replaced long ago.
Also, please remember that RCDs themselves, do not detect or prevent current overloads, so years ago you needed normal breakers for the current overloads and an RCD for each phase, usually only one phase in the UK. Here we have all three!.
Nowadays, there are also combination breakers that trip at a specific overload, and if the current gets unbalanced, it also trips.
Either fault type simply dropping THAT breaker only, the one that is affected.
And guessing only, no single large RCD legally required on each phase, unless some circuits are still not fully protected against electrocution.
I tripped one once giving a class in a classroom with no windows, and here in Germany, there is no separation of power sockets and lighting, so not only did I get a shock, but I also had to fumble my way to the door to let some light into the classroom, and then go and find the breaker to reset!!
Nowadays I would hope that it is a requirement for all houses to have at least one main RCD per phase.
It is still quite recent here and only since around 2010...
If anything needs further explanation, just let me know.
regards
Andy
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Fordulike

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
No different to other electrical appliances, a short will simply cause the RCD tripping (30ma) so as Ben says it is either the charger or battery charge point causing the issue. Only needs on minute strand of wire or a bit of insulation wear between the two to occur.
A true RCD, only trips at a misbalance of current between the phase and the neutral of the value stated, as you posted, around 30mA or less.. Nothing to do with a short circuit where many amps may pass!
Most RCDs are not built for any overload fault detection, that is a short circuit for example!
Let me state fully, a short circuit will NOT trip a standard RCD, as it is not designed to.
A normal CB must also be available for full overload current protection, but can also be included together in the same package if needed. But only one such device would not protect a house adequately. Then every circuit must have one from/in the Fusebox.
Andy
PS. This appears to be a reasonable definion of and about RCD usage for anyone interested:-
PPS. Nealh you appear to need to have a bit more knowledge on the subject to my mind. You appear to only have enough to be dangerous IMHOO.
Remember, accuracy is deathly important with comments referring to mains electricity! As I am sure you agree.
If its any consolation, I have met MANY electricians over the years, in the UK, Finland, Sweden and Germany that also did not understand how they work. One (Finland) blew up an expensive line printer ($100,000) due to his inadquate knowledge - he mixed phase and earth!!!
 

GSV3MiaC

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2020
211
134
' tripped the fuse box' doesnt distinguish between the rcd, or the overload breaker (used to be fuse wire). Iirc latest wiring regs call for rcbo on each circuit instead of one rcd for a whole bunch of circuits, which was prior state of the art, and meant one dying kettle could turn off most of the house. Most places haven't made the upgrade yet, but new builds should be on rcbo.

Tripping an overload breaker is pretty unlikely if there is a sensible fuse in the charger lead,
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
' tripped the fuse box' doesnt distinguish between the rcd, or the overload breaker (used to be fuse wire). Iirc latest wiring regs call for rcbo on each circuit instead of one rcd for a whole bunch of circuits, which was prior state of the art, and meant one dying kettle could turn off most of the house. Most places haven't made the upgrade yet, but new builds should be on rcbo.
Actually it does unless the person concerned has no idea of the difference between an RCD and a circuit breaker/fuse.
Tripping an overload breaker is pretty unlikely if there is a sensible fuse in the charger lead,
Rightly or wrongly, I took the meaning was that the whole fusebox went offline. And that is in the UK, most likely to be a ground short/leakage on the charger for some reason.
If it had been a current overload, then only 1 breaker/fuse should have blown (the one in the plug of course!), and I have never seen a house fusebox with only one overload breaker for the whole house. But only one RCD for the whole house is MOST common in the UK.
Because in the UK, in housing generally, there is only one phase connected from the mains, and if this is protected with ONE RCD, probably the law requires it nowadays, will therefore drop the power to the complete fusebox, thereby losing all sockets and all lighting!!
But only the OP can say for certain exactly what happened.....
But as I mentioned before, RCD/CB Combos can generally be installed for each circuit, so that only the circuit with the problem gets dropped and not all power to the house.
I do have a faint recollection, that the early RCDs were very sensitive in UK Houses, and even the neighbours "kettle", could drop the RCD in nearby houses. How true this was I have no idea exactly, but I found this, which supports my memories rather well:-

Where it is quoted:-

Historically, two basic types of earth-leakage circuit-breaker (ELCB) were recognised by BS 7671: what we know to be a current-operated type or residual current device (RCD) and the even older voltage-operated type. Today, only the current-operated type is recognised and used.

regards
Andy
 

GSV3MiaC

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2020
211
134
we are in violent agreement over what probably happened, but I still say the original 'tripped the fuse box' is ambiguous.

RCDs of the type you describe are now old technology, and 18th edition of wiring regs is definitely pushing towards RCBOs .. see


I already upgraded one of my distribution boards, the second is pending. The whole 'tripped the fuse box' is an issue for old style installations, since masses of stuff unrelated to the fault can get turned off. Wiring regs at least insisted that should not include lighting circuits.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,396
3,237
A toaster in my kitchen turned off living room lights the other day. I switched the tripped switch back on, it's been fine since. My fuse box is very old...
 

Bikes4two

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 21, 2020
1,008
432
Havant
Hi @Jaxter ,
I would guess that all the chit-chat about RCDs, Circuit Breakers (aka MCBs) and combined RCDs and MCBs (properly known as RCBOs - :rolleyes:) may well be leaving you cold .....
EDITED 19/4/22
However, it is unlikely to be an earth leakage / RCD trip as unless your charger is different to most, it will probably be a 'Class 2' double insulated item and thus have no earth circuit to conduct electricity to and hence trip an RCD.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: robert44

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,396
3,237
The odd things was, the toaster which tripped the switch in the fusebox, didn't have a burned out fuse in the plug - some abnormal power something tripped that switch. Lots of toast has popped up, it hasn't happened since. I think it was caused by a very momentary short circuit somewhere within the toaster, set off by a particularly big thick heavy slice being thrown upwards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bikes4two

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
we are in violent agreement over what probably happened, but I still say the original 'tripped the fuse box' is ambiguous.

RCDs of the type you describe are now old technology, and 18th edition of wiring regs is definitely pushing towards RCBOs .. see


I already upgraded one of my distribution boards, the second is pending. The whole 'tripped the fuse box' is an issue for old style installations, since masses of stuff unrelated to the fault can get turned off. Wiring regs at least insisted that should not include lighting circuits.
I don't feel, until more and accurate information is supplied, it to be ambiguos, it really does'nt matter in this case, if the older voltage style RCD (and not allowed anymore in the UK) or the later type current RCD is in place, as unless each circuit has its own separate RCD + over current breaker, there will be only one RCD protecting humans & pets from a shock, and that will, if actuated, take out the whole fusebox, exactly as it was designed to do.
I did mention this in a previous post.
We must wait on further information from the OP, to see if he was exagerating or not!.....
But it is safe to say, that the most likely situation at this time is that it really did drop the whole fusebox off line! A safe direction IMHO.
regards
Andy
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
The odd things was, the toaster which tripped the switch in the fusebox, didn't have a burned out fuse in the plug - some abnormal power something tripped that switch. Lots of toast has popped up, it hasn't happened since. I think it was caused by a very momentary short circuit somewhere within the toaster, set off by a particularly big thick heavy slice being thrown upwards.
Thats not odd, that implies that an earth leakage was the reason that an RCD tripped, and not an over current situation.
Assuming of course that nobody has replaced the plug fuse with an unfuseable link!
regards
Andy
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,396
3,237
Thats not odd, that implies that an earth leakage was the reason that an RCD tripped, and not an over current situation.
Assuming of course that nobody has replaced the plug fuse with an unfuseable link!
regards
Andy
Hmmm... very interesting... it's a normal 13a fuse in the plug - what on earth are you doing up so early Andy? :oops: Are you busily programming away in COBOL?

It was a very thick and heavy slice of home baked bread which caused some sort of electrical problem in the toaster, which at the moment toasts as extremely dense and heavy toast... more yeast or sugar is needed methinks (breadmaker) :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,832
2,756
Winchester
an RCD for each phase, usually only one phase in the UK.
Story from our stay in US, 2 phase 110v. Main oven worked using both phases to get 220v, but some rings, timers etc just used 110v from one phase or the other. Suddenly most odd symptoms; nothing except the timer worked properly, rings would sort of work if oven turned on, etc. Oven experts declared we (or the landlords) needed a $300 new control unit.

By luck I absently mindedly twiddled the breaker before that arrived, and everything worked. What had happened was the breaker had tripped. Double ganged breaker (not sure what type, 1980) for each phase so if one side went down it should pull the other and trip. Turned out that it went the wrong way, one phase of the ganged breaker had tripped, but instead of pulling down the visible switch and breaking the other phase, the switch on the second phase kept the visible handle the first phase in the on position as if unbroken so breaker just looked normal.