Changes to Regulations - Speed pedelecs / dongles / throttles

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

ok, well thats our submission submitted

Pretty much in agreement with KudoDave.. all looks ok, but we can't see why you'd want to remove the weight limit.

There is no way some of the eMopeds on ebay should be classed as pedelecs. The weight factor is an important part of it being a bike in our opinion.

 

[flecc]

I don't see the weight limit removal as a problem, mainland Europe seem to manage well without problems and they can have e-pedicabs that are actually practical and legal.
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[Kudoscycles]

I'm not so certain... what's the UK market size for mopeds/scooters? ...their regulatory requirements are far more onerous than those for speed pedelecs, and speed pedelecs with a throttle can do almost everything better than a scooter can do in town, no?

James....you are confusing us all and I think confusing yourself.
Firstly,it is not possible to legally use an S pedelec as anything in the UK. I think we are all agreed it cannot be a bicycle because of the power and speed. I spoke to my friends at SVA and there are so many mods needed to make it into a moped,if you went through the obstacles,would you want to wear a crash hat on what still looked like a bicycle,albeit one with motorbike headlights,indicators etc? Unless you have some magic bit of documentation trying to make an S pedelec into anything legal
is a none starter.
Whereas there are many e-mopeds that already have type approval,they can be readily registered without recourse to SVA.....to prove it I will bring over an e-moped next shipment and register it,just to prove the point.
But I would be pleased if you could do the same to an S pedelec, there are many on this forum who would love to know the process?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I would be interested even it meant road only for commuting purposes

I'd have two bikes then - one "mongrel" and one pedelec for leisure

But I don't doubt you are right about market size. Tiny

Kirsten....just out of interest would an e-moped be of interest to you? Maybe it is too far away from a bicycle in appearance? Maybe having to pay registration costs and insurance takes away the low cost of a bike?,you would have to tax it but this is free cost. Am interested in reasons why these bikes are not as numerate as they are in Germany or Holland,maybe they are just not so available or off our radar.
KudosDave

 

[mfj197]

When writing Dave, can you make clear that you are happy with no weight limit on e-tricycles. I would hate to see a continuation of the very restrictive 60 kilo limit for those, preventing anyone having an e-rickshaw. No country in mainland Europe finds that's necessary.
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But again shouldn't an e-rickshaw be classed as a motor vehicle, for road use only? If they were classed as an e-bike you could end up with e-rickshaws being allowed on paths and off-road tracks which would be both very bumpy for the passengers and rather damaging for the trails! I'd be more in favour of a road-only class of e-bikes which could cover S-pedelecs as well as e-rickshaws.

Michael

 

[hoppy]

I'm not so certain... what's the UK market size for mopeds/scooters? ...their regulatory requirements are far more onerous than those for speed pedelecs, and speed pedelecs with a throttle can do almost everything better than a scooter can do in town, no?

Under the new regs can we have s class bikes with throttles?

 

[Twangman]

Would you be happy to have road use only? No promenades,no cycle tracks,no bridleways? With good design I think it may be possible to make an e-moped in the style of a bicycle but with 350 or even 500 watt power and 30 mph speed. But the feedback I get from customers is they want to use it everywhere they could use a bicycle and that is not possible,to be legal you would have to make a choice. I think the market for such a mongrel would be very small.
KudosDave

As a London Commuter yes I have no problem of it being rd only. Most of my journeys are by road and on main roads a bit more speed would be an advantage.

 

[flecc]

But again shouldn't an e-rickshaw be classed as a motor vehicle, for road use only? If they were classed as an e-bike you could end up with e-rickshaws being allowed on paths and off-road tracks which would be both very bumpy for the passengers and rather damaging for the trails! I'd be more in favour of a road-only class of e-bikes which could cover S-pedelecs as well as e-rickshaws.

Michael

That isn't in question Michael, rickshaws are far too cumbersome to be used in that fashion. They are used in central city areas over short distances for taxi work. Typically a Lynch powered e-rickshaw weighs 140 kilos or more without anyone on board and has a top speed around 8 mph. They are too wide to use on such paths and off road tracks and no-one would ever use one for such leisure riding, they are just too tough to pedal assist except on smooth flat roads.

So effectively they are road use only.
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[james@justebikes.co.uk]

As I understand it, if a product is found to be outside the specification of its specified type approval it will automatically be placed in the next class above and the supply chain would then be liable to any fines dictated by the member state in which it was placed on the road, so the end seller and supply chain would be liable for making it available and the end buyer would have a strong case should they suffer at the hands of the law for using it without the knowledge that it didn't comply.

That's inline with what Trading Standards have told me - the liability does not stop with the retailer. In the case of e-bikeshop modifying Haibikes, Raleigh UK, WinoraGMBH, and Accell.BV may also be liable as they have been fully aware of e-bikeshop promoting and selling modified e-bikes for over a year.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Under the new regs can we have s class bikes with throttles?

You are trying to reach to the moon....Firstly, it is highly unlikely we will have S class in the UK....Secondly,the biggest market for S class is Germany,where throttles are specifically banned....Thirdly,even if we had S class in the UK no bike producer would seek type approval just for the UK,the bikes would be made to the German spec,that is without throttles.
The latter is already having an effect,no German manufacturer will fit a throttle and any chinese manufacturer who's biggest market is Germany is also reluctant to fit throttles. Also those companies which sell in the UK but get their EN15194 because the product is also sold in Germany will find it difficult and expensive to have a different EN15194 approval just for the UK spec.
Even though the DfT is proposing throttles,the more prestigious (read that as bigger)suppliers will probably not fit them,retrofitting just for the UK also has its difficulties.
Sorry
KudosDave

 

[Wander]

That's inline with what Trading Standards have told me - the liability does not stop with the retailer. In the case of e-bikeshop modifying Haibikes, Raleigh UK, WinoraGMBH, and Accell.BV may also be liable as they have been fully aware of e-bikeshop promoting and selling modified e-bikes for over a year.

& what do Trading Standards say about the allegation that justebikes are selling S-Pedelecs & misinforming their customers regarding how easy it is to register them???

 

[the_killjoy]

I would assume that once someone buys one and finds he cannot register it then James will just give them their money back.