Change UK law to allow 30mph ebikes

[trevor brooker]

Well such e-bikes are already available, so mainly what you want is those additional laws, the first for all cyclists. Why the triangle when the rear number plate tells drivers this is no ordinary bicycle?

But if you want the present bureaucracy free e-bikes to be permitted 30 mph, forget it, it's never going to happen.

Why would government allow unregistered e-bikes to travel at 30 mph with unlicenced riders when 30 mph moped riders have to suffer driving licences and the whole of motorcycle law?
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The triangle at the front to warn vehicles waiting to turn in front that its faster than a normal bike, the rear triangle to improve its visibility.
I have always assumed that the government would impose additional restrictions - helmets, insurance etc the same as Germany did for s-pedelecs

 

[anotherkiwi]

s-pedelecs usually have daytime running lights, I use one on my pedelec and it does help signal to drivers that you are a fast bike.

 

[flecc]

I have always assumed that the government would impose additional restrictions - helmets, insurance etc the same as Germany did for s-pedelecs

In that case then your argument for 30 mph e-bikes has no foundation since we already allow them. Be aware though that the fast e-bikes themselves have to meet stricter standards than ordinary e-bikes and bicycles.

Basically you are arguing for a large front triangle on fast e-bikes.

The rest is just the existing arguments for increased safety for all bicycles. In that connection you really need to get your web page right since your extrapolations have produced numerous gross errors.
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[oyster]

The triangle at the front to warn vehicles waiting to turn in front that its faster than a normal bike,

Being electrically assisted to 30 mph (or whatever) does not necessarily mean that it is faster than a "normal" bike (electric or non-assisted). Pretty much every day I reach 27 mph on my way in to work without any difficulty - hardly need to pedal! Quite sure I could easily go quite a bit faster.

(Unfortunately, that otherwise good place to reach 27 mph occurs at a point at which a reasonable proportion of oncoming wants to turn right - across my bows and my right of way. Many misjudge and I often have to slow down to be sure of them clearing the junction.)

It would somehow seem a bit odd if two bikes, both travelling at around 30 mph, are distinguished by a triangle on one to identify that it is faster than the other.

 

[flecc]

It would somehow seem a bit odd if two bikes, both travelling at around 30 mph, are distinguished by a triangle on one to identify that it is faster than the other.

I was forced to smile at the triangle on the front suggestion. It reminded me of the man carrying a red flag walking in front of motor cars early in the 20th century.
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[Wicky]

It'd get very confusing with kids putting go faster red triangles on their pushbikes...

 

[jdallan]

I was forced to smile at the triangle on the front suggestion. It reminded me of the man carrying a red flag walking in front of motor cars early in the 20th century.
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I remember that too, flecc

Jim

 

[wheeliepete]

I remember that too, flecc

Jim

Sh#t, how old are you guys?

 

[flecc]

Sh#t, how old are you guys?

I'm not quite that old, but I have seen evolution in action.

When I was young fish didn't have fingers, but now they are so common that we wean our kids on them.
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[oyster]

I remember that too, flecc

Jim

Hmm, repealed in 1896 which, by my calculation, was before the twentieth century. (As it was introduced in 1865, it actually preceded the motor car by almost twenty years!)

[Many thanks to internet for making it easy to check up on "I thought I remembered xxx".]

 

[flecc]

Hmm, repealed in 1896 which, by my calculation, was before the twentieth century. (As it was introduced in 1865, it actually preceded the motor car by almost twenty years!)

No, they're still doing it:

 

[gwing]

I'm not personally opposed to much of what you want, but you are being hopelessly unrealistic:

1) When what you propose is already permitted with suitable bikes available as d8veh pointed out, albeit registered with m/c restrictions, why would a government even consider change? I doubt the DfT would even understand why you are asking.

2) Your "I felt the financial & health benefits (if properly explained) would encourage a large number of car commuters to switch." is what government and other have been trying to do for decades, without any result. Everyone already knows that cycling would be healthier and much cheaper than driving, it's obvious even to the dumbest and they've all seen and heard the propaganda. But they also know the many disadvantages and want none of them.

3) Matching traffic speeds by increasing bike speed is the opposite of government policy. Their two part policy is separating bicycles from motor vehicles where possible or reducing motor vehicle speeds to the common 20mph bike speed. In other words, once again they are gradually doing what you want, but approaching it from a different direction.

Anyway, I wish you luck, by all means campaign but don't be surprised when, like all your predecessors and the e-bike trade, you get absolutely nowhere.

As said, it's already permitted, so where is the problem?
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It does indeed seem a 30mph class isn't going to happen.

What would be nice, and perhaps more achievable, might be a 20mph class, hopefully not needing plates/ insurance/tax/mot but maybe needing a driving licence or some sort of proficiency test/training test as a price for the extra speed.
That would seem to fit in with government 20mph policy, harmonise urban bike and car speeds, and still not go faster than can be achieved on a non powered bike. It seems also a sensible level as it would still allow a reasonable battery range and allow road cycling enthusiasts to generally keep up better with their younger/fitter/faster pals on road bikes.

 

[trevor brooker]

Thanks for the informed & some witty replies.
My proposal does not stand.
But my objectives remain.
What legislative changes will provide for safer road cyclists.
What will get car COMMUTERS to move to ebikes?

 

[anotherkiwi]

One word: infrastructure...

 

[Wicky]

Here in Colchester - the County Council has been creating/imposing a lot of expensive cycling 'friendly' infrastructure that is ill thought out unwanted by local Council & local cycling groups.

The milllions spent could have bought every local cylist a very nice expensive pedelec!

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14384231.Sir_Bob_Russell_blasts_plans_to_demolish_Balkerne_Hill_footbridge/

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/local/8839558.Campaigners__New_cycle_route_is____sheer_madness___/

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/15155304.__750_000_cycle_path__unwanted_by_cyclists__dug_up_after_just_seven_months/

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14830693.Fewer_than_FIVE_cyclists_a_week_use__unwanted__new___750k_path__residents_claim/

 

[anotherkiwi]

Here in Colchester - the County Council has been creating/imposing a lot of expensive cycling 'friendly' infrastructure that is ill thought out unwanted by local Council & local cycling groups.

The milllions spent could have bought every local cylist a very nice expensive pedelec!

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14384231.Sir_Bob_Russell_blasts_plans_to_demolish_Balkerne_Hill_footbridge/

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/local/8839558.Campaigners__New_cycle_route_is____sheer_madness___/

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/15155304.__750_000_cycle_path__unwanted_by_cyclists__dug_up_after_just_seven_months/

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14830693.Fewer_than_FIVE_cyclists_a_week_use__unwanted__new___750k_path__residents_claim/

Wouldn't it be nice if real live cyclists were taken on board when these projects were conceived?

I have many spots where I would like to stick the local mayors and their "cycle path expert" on an un powered bike and say "ride from here to there then report back". The EV1 has several spots that can't be cycled in the Basque Country! For example stones stopping cars from using a cycle/pedestrian bridge that also stop baggage trailers and trikes from using it! I doubt you could pass with some of the wider wheelchairs...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

As I said before, the only thing that will encourage people out of cars onto bikes is to make it more uncomfortable to use cars, so people are forced to look for alternatives.

 

[tommie]

One word: infrastructure...

Another word: Weather!

who in their right mind would substitute a warm cosy car for a bike in our climate? Rain, snow, wind, 0C ??!

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the informed & some witty replies.
My proposal does not stand.
But my objectives remain.
What legislative changes will provide for safer road cyclists.
What will get car COMMUTERS to move to ebikes?

As d8veh has posted twice, making driving unpleasant will push drivers into considering e-bikes or unpowered cycling.

It's important not to lose sight of the alternatives though, since in the UK we will never get to 50% cycling and here's why. The Netherlands has huge advantages in being almost entirely flat and a population who have traditionally cycled continuously for around a century,

But even there they only just reach 70% cycling including a very large proportion e-biking, and that only by getting very tough and restrictive with cars, very soft on cyclists, and spending vast sums on their excellent cycling infrastructure. In the much more hilly UK we are never going to get to that, even with e-bikes, since on hills they are still hard work for many people.

So to start getting people out of cars onto bikes it's best to first concentrate on the flatter areas by concentrating the infrastructure improvements we can afford into there, while making car driving much less pleasant and convenient by restrictions. There's some proven very effective ways of doing that, for example expensive congestion zones and alternate day driving only allowed.

In the geographically challenging areas it's more productive to accept that many will not cycle (remember, 30% of the Dutch even where it's flat with excellent infrastructure) and concentrate on improving public transport reliability, affordability, frequency and comfort, again with tough restrictions on car driving. There can still be some cycling improvement, but it's not worth spending huge sums on little used facilities, we do too much of that already.

And of course there's the part journey alternatives to reduce powered travel, hire bicycles at strategic stands and even walking. Many in London complete their commutes with walking or hire cycling a mile or so, our very large and central parks, often traffic free, making that attractive. So greening strategic walking and cycling routes will encourage that.
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[anotherkiwi]

Another word: Weather!

who in their right mind would substitute a warm cosy car for a bike in our climate? Rain, snow, wind, 0C ??!

Tens of thousands of Dutch, Danish, ... ?