Change in e-bike legislation

[flecc]

Under Freedom of Information and data protection, has anyone in the EU ever been charged with speeding on a ebike?

Difficult to nearly impossible on the road I think.

In mainland Europe where there's only pedalling with power, it's impossible to say that the rider isn't providing the speed over 25 kph.

In Britain with our throttle only permission, it would be possible to determine breaking the 15 mph limit if the rider wasn't pedalling at the time, it wasn't downhill, and the period of measurment was long enough.

However, suspicion is enough in all cases for a bike to checked for compliance with the EAPC limit, so on road measurement doesn't really apply, it's the bikes and not the riders that need to comply.

That's all in the UK though, since public road speed limits are part of motor vehicle legislation and don't apply to bicycles or e-bikes.
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[lemmy]

Fully agree, the lack of bureaucracy and restrictive usage laws are the e-bike's greatest attraction and we shouldn't be in a hurry to lose them.

My thoughts exactly.

If you have an e-bike that cannot go on towpaths or cycle lanes or park on footpaths, needs helmet, insurance et al, why not buy something like a Honda 125CG, faster, similar running costs or less taking into account battery replacement etc? A good second hand one costs no more than a good e-bike anyway.

Otherwise, just mod your own e-bike. If you look at the ubiquitous use of mobiles while driving, unmuzzled dangerous dogs, bicycles ridden on pavements and speeding cars, there's little law enforcement anyway.

I can't imagine anyone ever getting nicked for 'exceeding 15.5mph under electric power, m'lud'

 

[eddieo]

BBC lunch time news had a film of about 10 police in central London trapping cyclists going through lights and issuing on the spot fines. A guy was filmed being stopped who had just coasted through the lighs with not a pedestrian in sight..£30 please. the police officer in charge said "this is what the public have asked us to do" Yeah right! AN easy soft target more like!

 

[Straylight]

The officer's comment may have been genuine though, as you must have experienced the impatience of your average London motorist for bicycles (jealousy?).

 

[Alex728]

The officer's comment may have been genuine though, as you must have experienced the impatience of your average London motorist for bicycles (jealousy?).

TBH I'd agree with this assessment.

An increasing amount of "naughty" but relatively harmless activities in this country are being clamped down on - not even because there are armies of cops and bureaucrats watching everyone on surveillance systems, but because a fair few other citizens hate to see their fellow man/woman "bucking the system..."

even a lot of the rules and bureaucracy about e-bikes are caused by rival manufacturers trying to use the legislation to their advantage and lobbying government rather than govt dreaming up stuff on their own...

 

[Alex728]

Under Freedom of Information and data protection, has anyone in the EU ever been charged with speeding on a ebike?

I saw a clip of "Blik op de Weg" (a Dutch version of Police, Camera, Action) and the Politie were stopping some dude on a (unpowered!) recumbent for being over the speed limit on the bike path - apparently they have "fast" and "slow" bike paths - That said I think the cops there take a pragmatic view of things, they don't care about the power source, just the safety aspects - this was a "slow" bike path and the limit was about 25-30 km/h...

Unfortunately my Dutch isn't yet that good so I couldn't work out exactly what happened to the guy. I think he only got a minor traffic ticket and a simple warning to "ride that on the main road if you are going to be that fast!"

I've seen comments from Dutch cyclists that lycras are occasionally stopped and told to slow down in certain areas...

 

[eddieo]

well the answer must be civil disobedience if the "authoritys" are going to be unreasonable....

one thing nicking a lycra clad hooligan cycling dangerously on street and pavement, quite another the example I made earlier, of resonable considerate behaviour IMO being penalised. I dont think my knee or battery would last long if I had to stop at every fragin traffic light

 

[Sevenhills]

Hi

I dont see anything wrong with making cycles stop mat traffic lights. But its the illegal parking, quite often dangerous, that gets overlooked.
How much litter do we see, and how many people get a ticket for littering? Good laws should be enforced, are we really too busy to stop at red lights?

S

 

[Alex728]

Under Freedom of Information and data protection, has anyone in the EU ever been charged with speeding on a ebike?

TBH I doubt if these statistics are even collated and I have tried looking as its such a minor "crime" which usually results in a warning or a small fixed penalty, if they are they are mixed in with other minor traffic violations such as jaywalking (an offence in many other nations but not in the UK).

I've also got the impression from reading European media sources that some other EU nations have a stronger privacy law than the UK and keep their Press more leashed and muzzled with regard to crime reporting - whilst big crimes such as murder, violence and major fatal/injury RTC's are reported, both local and national papers are discouraged from reporting on petty/victimless offences which are viewed as something to be sorted out between the individual and the state alone rather than the "name and shame" culture of England.

For minor crimes European cops often simply refuse to tell the Press anything other than "a person was arrested", they won't even say what the offence was! I expect many Brits would see this as "lack of transparency" or "spinning the news" but perhaps it does reduce unneeded fear of crime..

 

[Andy_82]

BBC lunch time news had a film of about 10 police in central London trapping cyclists going through lights and issuing on the spot fines. A guy was filmed being stopped who had just coasted through the lighs with not a pedestrian in sight..£30 please. the police officer in charge said "this is what the public have asked us to do" Yeah right! AN easy soft target more like!

yes Eddio,

I have a big respect for Police overall but the Police in Westminster really ''Sucks''. They recently arrested one of my pedicab rickshaw riders for parking his tricycle pedicab parked with one of the rear wheels on the pavement and the other two were still on the road. Reason why he did that was not block the road for cars passing through.

And the best is that his pedicab (my pedicab) was impounded for three months and the rider being sent to magistrates for highway obstruction. The pedicab was released once the judge gave a sentence to pay £190 fine.

YES, so be careful when you park your bike on the pavement as the tricycle and bicycle should stick to the same rules. Police in Westminster clearly is overusing their power

All the best

 

[flecc]

YES, so be careful when you park your bike on the pavement as the tricycle and bicycle should stick to the same rules. Police in Westminster clearly is overusing their power

Should be ok to park a bike on the pavement though. Way back in the past when parking meters were first introduced, it was specified that the correct place to park a bike was locked to a meter post on the side away from the road. Of course few did that since it wasn't something motorists would appreciate and a lock around an open top post might not be much good anyway. Having said that, I have locked a bike to a meter post short term in those earlier innocent days.

This ruling at the time indicates that a bike being on the pavement is acceptable, even in Westminster, and in any case there are hundreds of thousands of bikes parked on London's pavements all the time.
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[Old Timer]

With regards the stopping at traffic lights and other road signs etc! Why shouldn`t everyone that uses the road obey the law? a cyclist going through a red light or cycling up a one way street the wrong way can cause a serious accident if nothing else but to a pedestrian or heaven forbid another cyclist. How would we feel if one of our children or our wife was happily cycling along through a junction and crashed into a red light jumper, came off and sustained a head injury that left them a vegetable It would be a different story then I gather! demanding the full weight of the law to came into play no doubt.

I do see the point made with regards gangs of police officers spending time for trivial offences though.

 

[eddieo]

If pedestrians are crossing then you stop...and obviously stop at junctions

It OK for you out in the sticks, traffic lights are every 30 yards in south London.........

 

[Patrick]

If pedestrians are crossing then you stop...and obviously stop at junctions

It OK for you out in the sticks, traffic lights are every 30 yards in south London.........

So are you saying it's OK for all road users in South London to treat red lights as Give Way signs (as long as they are very careful) or just cyclists?

Patrick

 

[eddieo]

So are you saying it's OK for all road users in South London to treat red lights as Give Way signs (as long as they are very careful) or just cyclists?

Patrick

No, but I am a pragmatist. a cyclist can get of at traffic lights walk bike across a red light and continue. Yes or no? so what's the difference in crossing at walking pace if no pedestrians around. why are you talking about cars

 

[flecc]

So are you saying it's OK for all road users in South London to treat red lights as Give Way signs (as long as they are very careful) or just cyclists?

Patrick

There is a serious movement wishing to effectively do just this by removing all traffic lights in the interests of road safety.

Coincidentally, motoring journalist Quentin Cooper is presenting a radio program about this next week:

The Material World, 4.30 pm Thursday 4th March. Blurb:

Quentin Cooper explores the argument that removing traffic lights from Britain's road would improve road safety for motorists and pedestrians, and hears about a new study being carried out in London.

No mention of cyclists there as usual. This can also be accessed by the BBC's i-player for those who cannot listen live next Thursday, here's the link:

I-player access to The Material World

Personally I do stop at all red lights, even the close spaced ones, but on well known lights I also anticipate the change to green by seconds to get away before the cars where safety considerations makes that advisable.
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[Old Timer]

If pedestrians are crossing then you stop...and obviously stop at junctions

It OK for you out in the sticks, traffic lights are every 30 yards in south London.........

Out in the sticks! only for the last 10 years or so, I saw the light(no pun)The amount of traffic is one of the reasons for leaving the smoke. I grew up in the East End where if you stopped at the lights you might get mugged I remember once around Peckham having to jump a set of lights to get away from a gang

I take my hat off to anyone riding a bike around London, you need eyes up your backside

 

[Straylight]

When I lived in London, the lights I used to run routinely were the ones on junctions that only had a right turn when I was going ahead, as I considered it to be perfectly safe (being able to skim the kerb and be well out of the way of traffic merging from the right), and occasionally when I was going left at a crossroads, visibility/size of road permitting. Of course the caveat being the pedestrians, but you don't only have to be aware of these at junctions - particularly in London.

I think cyclists are generally more aware than car drivers, as they're infinitely more vulnerable in urban traffic, and perhaps allowances should be made for this. Though god knows how this could be legislated for, as each decision on whether it's safe to proceed or not is individual, and not something one could generalise about.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thinking of replacing your e bike with a petrol scooter?

Be Aware!

Future EU Emission Rules to Become Driving Force for
e-Bikes

BRUSSELS, Belgium - The EU expects environmental restrictions on cars and Powered Two-Wheelers (PTW) to be set in such a way that one norm for all vehicles will be applied by the end of this decade. A measure that will greatly incite the development and sale of e-Bikes, e-Scooters and e-Motorcycles.

During a recently held ACEM motorcycle industry conference in Brussels it was said that by 2015 the PTW industry in the EU will face a first significant clamp-down on emissions and safety technology. “We are considering the implementation of one norm for all vehicles by – say – the year 2018 to 2020,” said Giacomo Mattino; the European Commission’s specialist on automotive matters.

Preparations for the proposal of new EU technical demands on PTW’s are on the home stretch. Mattino expects them to be presented to the commission by the month of April. “They will involve new demands in the field of both environment and safety,” he said.

In this framework the presence of the BMW C1 E electric scooter prototype in the reception hall of the Brussels meeting was by no means a coincidence. Mattia Pellegrini, advisor to the EU commissioner for Transport, predicts that not only cars but the PTW world too will have to play a role in the implementation of ‘zero emission’ mobility in the future. “In the current economic downturn the industry might get support to start developments in this field,” he said.

Gabriele del Torchio, CEO of Ducati and speaking in Brussels, couldn’t agree more. “Particularly because the heaviest hits are taken by producers of PTW’s over 400 cc. That market is down by at least 35%. This industry does have a future in this part of the world, but it needs help in the short and longer term. Scrappage schemes alone won’t do. There should be more incentives to enable innovation. And the EU should help to keep suppliers on their feet for otherwise those activities will disappear to other regions of the world. A major part of it already has.”

 

[lemmy]

Though god knows how this could be legislated for, as each decision on whether it's safe to proceed or not is individual, and not something one could generalise about.

When I'm walking in London, I am sick and tired of thugs on bikes yelling 'look out!' as they slam between people on pedestrian crossings. If I'm halfway across and a cyclist slips past at a reasonable pace as I approach, I don't mind that.

Unfortunately, the behaviour of a loutish minority has tarred us all with the same brush.

A pragmatic piece of legislation would say that cyclists can disregard motor traffic rules without penalty but in doing so automatically be deemed personally responsible for any resulting accident.

A bit like unlimited speeds on certain autobahn in Germany. You can go as fast as you wish but any any accident you are involved in at high speed will be deemed your fault.

I'm sceptical of any attempt in the UK to legislate for sensible people. I live near Fulham FC's training ground in London and when you see those guys in their 4x4s and the speed and manner of their driving, it makes people feel that what's needed is not relaxation of laws but harder ones.

I don't agree but the failure to enforce the law in London pushes people that way.