Chain jumping off

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
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On my newly converted bike with TSDZ02 motor, I had a bit of a problem today. Every time I was going fast freewheeling down steep hills and went over a bump, I got an extreme rubbing noise, like when you get a twig under the mudguard, but every time I stopped to check it out, it disappeared just before I stopped. It was very frustrating. It sounded like it was coming from the front mudguard., though I couldn't see any way it could happen, and I couldn't reproduce it by bouncing the front wheel.

Finally, I stuck my head right down when it was doing it, and I could hear it was coming from further back, then I saw the bottom run of the chain loose and rubbing on the back tyre.

The cause was the freehub, not running free. It was sort of free, but if you span it fast and jiggled it, it would make a sort of resonating noise and stop quickly, like a dry bearing. In that situation, which got triggered by any bump when freewheeling fast, the cassette was being turned by the wheel, which wound the chain back and pulled the derailleur forwards. The derailleur has a clutch. I think that might have something to do with it as well. This was also making the chain jump off completely in about 50% of cases.

I was a about 10 miles from home, so I had to adapt my pedalling. As long as the pedals were turning. It wouldn't do it, so I had to keep pedalling when going down very steep hills, which was a bit weird. It's not as easy as it sounds. Try riding your bike 10 miles without free-wheeling.

I opened it up to check inside, but everything seemed OK. The bearings were good, so I put a bit of oil on the pawls and reassembled it, after which it ran smooth as silk.

There have been a couple of threads recently about chains jumping off, so I'm wondering if a stiff freehub or freewheel could be a factor. It's very easy to get dirt, grass a twig or anything like that behind the gears, which would also cause it.
 

Raboa

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 12, 2014
787
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I would check:
Chain wear
Cassette wear
Chainring wear
Derailleur hanger on frame is not bent
Pulley wheel cage is not bent
Are gears indexed probably?
Maybe try a narrow / wide chainring, Race Face and others make them.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,396
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I'm wondering if it's caused by the TSDZ2's chainline. The chainline on my Dahon Helios 20" wheeled BBS01B conversion isn't too far off, I think... but being a small folding bike, the distance between the BB and rear sprockets is shorter than on larger bikes, there's more of a bend in the chain.... therefore the original Dahon nylon fitted chainguide at the chainwheel is necessary, even before conversion, to prevent the chain hopping off. And it usually stays on - the cause of my chain's recent hoppings off was caused by a worn chainwheel. Happens very rarely, which is why I haven't yet installed the new chainwheel I got for free on ebay a couple of months ago.
 

AGS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2023
608
190
My mtb had a triple chain set before my BBS conversion so I left the front derailleur in place as a chain guide and removed the cable and adjusted the screws.


IMG_0181.jpeg
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
6,817
3,152
Telford
I think you guys are misunderstanding. The freehub wasn't free. It turned with the wheel and pulled the derailleur forward and it locked there because it has a clutch. That's why the chain was coming off. I dismantled and lubed it. I just completed a 22 mile ride with no problems. I made my own chainguide that I detailed in another thread. It stops the chain coming off due to chainline problems.
 

AGS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2023
608
190
That’s just a section of drain pipe that I cut and bent using a heat gun, then cable tied to the motor with some rubber spacers. The spacers are a pack of pencil erasers from Tesco that also act as shock absorbers.

I was concerned that the motor would overheat because it stops airflow, but it’s been fine.

It works well as a bash guard.

IMG_0020.jpeg
 

Az.

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2022
2,045
903
Plymouth
It works well as a bash guard.
Yes, I see why you made it. Your motor is quite low.

It would be great to see a photo from another side. Nothing urgent - maybe next time when you take your bike out.
My TSDZ8 has cables at the bottom, so I might need something similar.

It is a good idea to leave front derailer as a chain guide.
 

AGS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2023
608
190
Here are a few photos with the bike upside down so you can see it better. My cable also exits at the bottom and the bash guard does a good job of protecting that as well.

IMG_0183.jpeg


IMG_0184.jpeg

IMG_0185.jpeg

IMG_0186.jpeg
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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Cool! Maybe I should make a bashguard like that. Despite hardly ever cycling offroad, my motor is being road debris blasted and eroded. My motor is closer to the road than most: 20" folding bike conversion. Cables are protected by the type of webbing used inside PCs. Sorry about the blurry pic, it's dark where my bike is charging at the moment. I only ever clean my bike when I replace the chain BTW.


57802
 
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saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
6,817
3,152
Telford
Cool! Maybe I should make a bashguard like that. Despite hardly ever cycling offroad, my motor is being road debris blasted and eroded. My motor is closer to the road than most: 20" folding bike conversion. Cables are protected by the type of webbing used inside PCs. Sorry about the blurry pic, it's dark where my bike is charging at the moment. I only ever clean my bike when I replace the chain BTW.


View attachment 57802
Covering it will reduce its cooling. The fins are supposed to be in the airflow.
 
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AGS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2023
608
190
I was fortunate enough to have kept a small length of this after replacing a section of pipe for my soak away.

 

AGS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2023
608
190
Covering it will reduce its cooling. The fins are supposed to be in the airflow.
Yes they are and I was concerned about this when I first fitted mine. But I haven’t had any problems with overheating so far even in really hot weather.

I did consider drilling some holes in it for airflow, but I cycle a lot in mud and they would soon get blocked up.
 

AGS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2023
608
190
This isn’t me, but our riding style is about the same and some of the conditions that I ride in are worse.


This is normal after I come back from a ride, so without the bash plate the cooling fins would be completely blocked up with mud.

IMG_0047.jpeg
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,396
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Covering it will reduce its cooling. The fins are supposed to be in the airflow.
Good point! Nickel electroplate over the eroded parts? Tricky, and I probably won't be doing that. Secure a sheet of heat conductive silicone over that part of the motor? That stuff isn't very heat conductive. I could bung some setting CPU heat conductive thermal paste (sets solid with strong adhesion, has to be hacked at to be removed) between the motor and the heat conductive silicone sheet, ziptie it on tight perhaps, to maximise surface area of contact.



Or use sheet aluminium with setting CPU thermal paste instead... good at conducting heat is aluminium. I could cut and bolt some fins onto the aluminium sheet. It'd have to be a two part aluminium sheet, so that access to motor innards isn't impeded when required, or a one part aluminium sheet bent and secured only along one side.

Or simply Hammerite and forget? Wouldn't need much sanding.
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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There are commercially available guards for the Bafang motors, but they are expensive for what they are.


On the other hand (or the same hand), my BBS01B has never felt hot to the touch, even after hauling 90kg+ (total weight of trailer plus cargo) bicycle trailers up steep hills. I'll probably go with your plastic shet solution, just need to buy a more powerful heat gun - don't think the 350W gizmo I use to shrink heatshrink is going to do the job.
 
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AGS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2023
608
190
Try it before buying a new heat gun. My heat gun started to melt the pipe.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,396
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Try it before buying a new heat gun. My heat gun started to melt the abs.
Cheers, good to know. The destructions for that heatshrink gizmo says it has to be kept at a 45 degree angle or greater upwards, to prevent overheating. I'll have a go at some point, before the motor case is eroded away and the core falls out. I've got a hi viz orange traffic cone which someone dumped on my lawn, did try the gizmo on that, got nowhere lol - couldn't get the cut parts of whatever that material is flat enough for what I had in mind, but I don't need to get it flat for this.
 
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