Carrera Vulcan E Spokes

[Richtea70]

Hi all,
On a bit of a whim last night, I bought a 2nd hand Carrera Vulcan E.
Was advertised on Gumtree (I know!), no description, with one blurred photo but was only about a mile from me so went to take a look. The bike was bought new in Oct 18, the guy had all receipts and extended warranty (although I dont think this passes on to second owner). I was aware of all the issues with the Suntour hub, the bike needed the brakes bleeding, slight wobble in the bottom bracket and had 3 broken spokes on the rear wheel. I took a very short test ride to check the motor cut in as it should (not wanting to stress the wheel anymore) and all was good.
The guy said he'd never had an issue with the motor cutting out as it was the 'revised' LCD display, not sure if that was correct or not but after a bit of negotiating came away with it for £340.
Im not afraid of getting the spanners out so will sort the brakes and bottom bracket, but not sure about the spoke replacement? They are not standard size and I've heard that spoke tension on a hub motor is key. Is it worth me trying to source and fit these spokes myself or just turn it over to a bike shop to fix and true the wheel? Also does anyone know of a decent bike shop in or around Reading?
Many thanks,
Rich

 

[Nealh]

How bad is wheel for true ?
Is it very noticeable ?

For spokes 12g (2.6mm), 13g (2.3mm) or using 14g(2mm) shouldn't pose any issues as a replacement.
You will need to remove one good spoke and measure from the end to the inside of the J bend for length, it is a skill worth acquiring and spokes can be replaced with out removing the wheel all you have to do is gently flex the spokes to manipulate them in to position. For tensioning buy a cheap £15 tensiometer and tension the same as existing spokes, both sides will have differing tensions.

 

[mike killay]

How bad is wheel for true ?
Is it very noticeable ?

For spokes 12g (2.6mm), 13g (2.3mm) or using 14g(2mm) shouldn't pose any issues as a replacement.
You will need to remove one good spoke and measure from the end to the inside of the J bend for length, it is a skill worth acquiring and spokes can be replaced with out removing the wheel all you have to do is gently flex the spokes to manipulate them in to position. For tensioning buy a cheap £15 tensiometer and tension the same as existing spokes, both sides will have differing tensions.

I would love to know how this is possible with a twin wall wheel.

 

[Richtea70]

How bad is wheel for true ?
Is it very noticeable ?

For spokes 12g (2.6mm), 13g (2.3mm) or using 14g(2mm) shouldn't pose any issues as a replacement.
You will need to remove one good spoke and measure from the end to the inside of the J bend for length, it is a skill worth acquiring and spokes can be replaced with out removing the wheel all you have to do is gently flex the spokes to manipulate them in to position. For tensioning buy a cheap £15 tensiometer and tension the same as existing spokes, both sides will have differing tensions.

Thanks Neath!

Theres no obvious buckle to it as the bike was stored as soon as the spokes went so hopefully not too much truing required.

I've removed a good spoke, measured up and have ordered a few bespoke ones online (235mm length). I'll have a go myself in the first instance but I think I'll have to remove the wheel and cassette to get the spokes on without any serious bending. So I'll take off wheel, remove cassette thread the new spokes in and then place back on the bike to try to true the wheel?

To be honest the spokes all seem to be at varying tension so they will all need a bit of work I think, is there any way of telling what tension spokes should be at (as I'm fairly certain Halfords wont know).

If worse comes to the worst I'll just take to the LBS but would like to have a go in the first instance.

 

[Sturmey]

............I think I'll have to remove the wheel and cassette to get the spokes on without any serious bending. .......

I have often replaced a broken spoke (at J bend) in 15 minutes. I simply remove old spoke, leaving old nipple in position and thread in new spoke. No need to take off wheel or tyre. I usaully have to put bends in new spoke but it straightens out under tension. The only thing I have to be careful about is not to let spoke nipple fall into the cavity on the double walled rims, so I keep wheel with spoke nipple in 12 o clock position. Don't be afraid to bend spokes. There just fancy bits of wire.

 

[Richtea70]

I have often replaced a broken spoke (at J bend) in 15 minutes. I simply remove old spoke, leaving old nipple in position and thread in new spoke. No need to take off wheel or tyre. I usaully have to put bends in new spoke but it straightens out under tension. The only thing I have to be careful about is not to let spoke nipple fall into the cavity on the double walled rims, so I keep wheel with spoke nipple in 12 o clock position. Don't be afraid to bend spokes. There just fancy bits of wire.

I'll check when I get it but I think one has broken off with the thread still in the nipple. In order to get one of the broken ones off last night (on the cassette side, which also had one of this crappy plastic chain guards behind it) I had to almost bend it to a right angle. I'm guessing that this amount of bending would be a no no with a new spoke?

 

[Sturmey]

I'll check when I get it but I think one has broken off with the thread still in the nipple. In order to get one of the broken ones off last night (on the cassette side, which also had one of this crappy plastic chain guards behind it) I had to almost bend it to a right angle. I'm guessing that this amount of bending would be a no no with a new spoke?

I have never seen spokes break in the middle so as long as you keep away from the threaded area and j bend, I think its safe to put bend in spoke. After fitting spoke, overtighten a little to stretch out kinks and then back off to get wheel straight.
Sometimes (on wider tyres) its possible to change nipple (without removing wheel and tyre) by letting air out of tube and pushing in section of tyre inwards. Then carefully prise up rim tape and remove old nipple. Thread new nipple backways on spoke and use spoke as a tool to insert new nipple into rim.

 

[Richtea70]

I have never seen spokes break in the middle so as long as you keep away from the threaded area and j bend, I think its safe to put bend in spoke. After fitting spoke, overtighten a little to stretch out kinks and then back off to get wheel straight.
Sometimes (on wider tyres) its possible to change nipple by letting air out of tube and pushing in section of tyre inwards. Then carefully prise up rim tape and remove old nipple. Thread new nipple backways on spoke and use spoke as a tool to insert new nipple into rim.

Really good tips there, thanks very much, I've bought a few spares so I'll give your methods a try before I go for the wheel off./ Just got to wait a couple of days for the spokes to be delivered :-(

 

[vfr400]

I have never seen spokes break in the middle so as long as you keep away from the threaded area and j bend, I think its safe to put bend in spoke. After fitting spoke, overtighten a little to stretch out kinks and then back off to get wheel straight.
Sometimes (on wider tyres) its possible to change nipple (without removing wheel and tyre) by letting air out of tube and pushing in section of tyre inwards. Then carefully prise up rim tape and remove old nipple. Thread new nipple backways on spoke and use spoke as a tool to insert new nipple into rim.

Not so easy on the disc side.

 

[egroover]

My experience with my crossfire-e is that they mostly break on the cassette side. I can thread the replacement spoke without removing the cassette (plastic chain spoke protector thing binned a long time ago) , as mentioned slight bend will straighten out when tensioned.

 

[Nealh]

If the hub dia is larger then the cassette then you can replace spokes with wheel in situ, depending on the brake rotor you can sometimes pass the spoke through the rotor cut outs or simply unbolt the rotor to allow spoke access.
For 2mm spoke tension I use 160 -180kgf on the rhs and 120 - 140kgf on the lhs, though a difference of 20% in tension can be acceptable. It depends if the wheel pulls out of true in any spoke location.
If your spokes creak and become loose then tension isn't enough and the whole wheel needs retensioning.

 

[Nealh]

I would love to know how this is possible with a twin wall wheel.

All my rims are twin walled it is a standard on most ebikes, I always work with wheel at 1 o'clock and if you use long nipples 14mm they don't push up past the rim tape. If using short nipples a pair of long nose pliers can be used to hold the nipple once the spoke is ready to be inserted.
The only time a rim/wheel is off the bike is for a complete rebuild otherwise all is done in situ.

 

[RichB]

My experience with my crossfire-e is that they mostly break on the cassette side. I can thread the replacement spoke without removing the cassette (plastic chain spoke protector thing binned a long time ago) , as mentioned slight bend will straighten out when tensioned.

What purpose does that plastic protector thing serve, I presume there's no issue in removing/throwing away?
Is it there to stop the chain slipping off of the largest cog and getting wedged between cassette and spokes?

 

[Nealh]

Is it there to stop the chain slipping off of the largest cog and getting wedged between cassette and spokes?

Yes.

 

[sjpt]

What purpose does that plastic protector thing serve, I presume there's no issue in removing/throwing away?
Is it there to stop the chain slipping off of the largest cog and getting wedged between cassette and spokes?

Yes.

And if it does come off it will be much less wedged, and probably won't do the spokes any harm.

 

[Nealh]

The chain will only over ride 1st gear if the stop adjustment is wrong other wise no need for the spoke protector.

 

[sjpt]

I think that I did have it ride off once even when properly adjusted, when a twig got caught in the mechanism and threw the chain. (I might be making excuses for myself not having adjusted it right?)

 

[Sturmey]

I think that I did have it ride off once even when properly adjusted, when a twig got caught in the mechanism and threw the chain. (I might be making excuses for myself not having adjusted it right?)

A common problem I have seen (especially when my children were younger) was when a bike was carelessly allowed to fall over onto the derailleur, the hanger would bend inwards, and in some cases I have seen the derailleur getting caught in spokes when the lowest gear was selected. I remember (long ago)seen large spoke protectors fitted to some rear wheels to stop this.

 

[RichB]

A common problem I have seen (especially when my children were younger) was when a bike was carelessly allowed to fall over onto the derailleur, the hanger would bend inwards, and in some cases I have seen the derailleur getting caught in spokes when the lowest gear was selected. I remember (long ago)seen large spoke protectors fitted to some rear wheels to stop this.

That is a monster! No hope of fitting those spokes in situ!

 

[egroover]

nobody remember the Chopper one?