Carrera Vengeance mountain bike

[amaroq]

I'm looking at a Carrera Vengeance mountain bike from Halfords.
I was initially going to purchase this with a 500W rear hub motor on eBay, but they have a waiting list and I need wheels now!

It will cost me more in total than what it would cost me to purchase it ready and fitted by them, but on the plus side, I can take my time getting the parts and the added satisfaction of self-building.

My question is has anyone got experience with this particular bike or a bike like it and would you still recommend a rear-hub system and if so which one?

I'm also considering a mid-drive motor like a 8fun Bafang motor but unsure whether these come recommended.

Thanks in advance

 

[Alan Quay]

I'm looking at a Carrera Vengeance mountain bike from Halfords.
I was initially going to purchase this with a 500W rear hub motor on eBay, but they have a waiting list and I need wheels now!

It will cost me more in total than what it would cost me to purchase it ready and fitted by them, but on the plus side, I can take my time getting the parts and the added satisfaction of self-building.

My question is has anyone got experience with this particular bike or a bike like it and would you still recommend a rear-hub system and if so which one?

I'm also considering a mid-drive motor like a 8fun Bafang motor but unsure whether these come recommended.

Thanks in advance

That bike has 24 gears, so 8 at the back. If you want to keep that arrangement you either need a rear hub motor with Cassette (most are freewheel) or a special 8 speed freewheel (DNP) at about £25.

Alternatively, crank drive as you suggest.

Edit: Also, it has 27.5" wheels. This will make things more difficult for a hub conversion, though not impossible.


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[amaroq]

Thanks Alan,

Yes, wheels are 27.5
I figured a 28" hub wheel will still work, or do any of the kits come with 27.5?

Regarding the arrangement I'm not too bothered. With a motor gears become less important to me; whether I have 3, 6, 7 or 8 doesn't matter too much.

I'm more concerned whether this is a good bike to that will adapt to conversion and what the best way to go is.

I guess people will say whatever suits you best, as far as hub wheel vs mid-drive motor is concerned.

My fear with mid-drive motors is that the power going through there will wear things out. It's an aluminium frame if that makes a difference. I would have thought the stronger the better.

I'll dig in the forum some more and see whether there are kits that come more recommended than others.

Cheers

 

[Yamdude]

Oxydrive do 250w and 350w hub kits with a 27.5 wheel with cassette.

http://www.oxydrive.co.uk/electric-bike-kit/

 

[Alan Quay]

Thanks Alan,

Yes, wheels are 27.5
I figured a 28" hub wheel will still work, or do any of the kits come with 27.5?

Regarding the arrangement I'm not too bothered. With a motor gears become less important to me; whether I have 3, 6, 7 or 8 doesn't matter too much.

I'm more concerned whether this is a good bike to that will adapt to conversion and what the best way to go is.

I guess people will say whatever suits you best, as far as hub wheel vs mid-drive motor is concerned.

My fear with mid-drive motors is that the power going through there will wear things out. It's an aluminium frame if that makes a difference. I would have thought the stronger the better.

I'll dig in the forum some more and see whether there are kits that come more recommended than others.

Cheers

In my opinion, it's not a great bike for a conversion.

If I were you, I'd find a 26" wheel bike with 21 or fewer gears, aluminum frame and disk brakes. Loads available on eBay for £50-100, often with very little use.

Then, chuck a 250w geared, rear hub kit on it, and some hydraulic brakes.

Total cost £650.

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[amaroq]

Oxydrive do 250w and 350w hub kits with a 27.5 wheel with cassette.

http://www.oxydrive.co.uk/electric-bike-kit/

Thanks Yamdude,

That's a great resource.

 

[amaroq]

In my opinion, it's not a great bike for a conversion.

If I were you, I'd find a 26" wheel bike with 21 or fewer gears, aluminum frame and disk brakes. Loads available on eBay for £50-100, often with very little use.

Then, chuck a 250w geared, rear hub kit on it, and some hydraulic brakes.

Total cost £650.

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Now, you've thrown a spanner in the works, lol
why do you say its not great for conversion?
The wheels?
Yamdude provided a resource that provide kits for 27.5 wheels.
I've tested the Carrera and its comfortable. I doubt I'd find one similar for £50-£100

 

[Yamdude]

Carrera are tough, reliable good bikes...... i cant see any reason not to fit a kit to the Vengeance.
I fitted a kit to my Carrera Crossfire, no probs with the kit or the bike in the 3 yrs i converted it.

I've only heard good things about the Oxydrive kits. I particularly like the integrated controller in the battery mount. It makes the kit far neater and an easier conversion.

 

[baldylox]

If you like the idea of the Oxydrive kit (as yamdude says; very neat kit with integrated controller), take a look at the (extensive) Oxydrive thread.
I've built two Oxydrive builds, one on a full suspension Giant and one on a hardtail Cube, although both on 26" rims a 27.5 is available and I'm sure will be every bit as good as the 26".
Look out for special offers or barter for discount

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[amaroq]

Thanks for your endorsement and input, baldyfox.

I do like the bike and if there is a kit that makes it suitable for conversion then, I'm sold.

Never heard of the Oxydrive kits before, but they look better and offset some of the cons associated with traditional hub-wheels of the past.
In fact I just read this article and they make a strong case for crank drives, esp. for my use, (stop-start and hills).

I shall look up the Oxydrive thread you've referenced

cheers

 

[Benjahmin]

Here's a thread on a Carrera Crossfire 3 conversion:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/converting-a-carrera-crossfire3.21965/
This bike has 700c wheels plus two sets of lugs on chainstay ( for rack and mudguards).
Gearing is slightly different, largest ring is 48T, smallest ring was removed to accomodate PAS sensor ring, leaving 16 gears. Plenty good, even in Wales.

 

[Alan Quay]

Now, you've thrown a spanner in the works, lol
why do you say its not great for conversion?
The wheels?
Yamdude provided a resource that provide kits for 27.5 wheels.
I've tested the Carrera and its comfortable. I doubt I'd find one similar for £50-£100

Carrera bikes are good, I've owned many. They represent great value for money. This model is pretty average in spec, with faddy 27.5" wheels.

It has knobbly tyres. Why would you want those in London? I'd want puncture resistance semi slicks for use on the road.

It has mech disks, which can be a right PITA, needing lots of intricate adjustment, made more awkward with a hub motor in the way.

I'd prefer V-brakes or hydraulic disks for commuting/delivery work.

So, I'd be wanting to spend at least £100 upgrading it before I could live with it.

The Oxydrive kit looks great though.

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[amaroq]

Carrera bikes are good, I've owned many. They represent great value for money. This model is pretty average in spec, with faddy 27.5" wheels.

It has knobbly tyres. Why would you want those in London? I'd want puncture resistance semi slicks for use on the road.

It has mech disks, which can be a right PITA, needing lots of intricate adjustment, made more awkward with a hub motor in the way.
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Thank you for your comment, Alan.
Well, my journey to this bike was via a consideration to purchase an e-bike that happened to use this carrera vengeance. I hadn't set out looking for a mountain bike to begin with.
However, having tried it I was pleasantly surprised and delighted by the comfort. I've previously ridden a single-speed road bike, and my body took a lot of punishment. The knobbly wheels may be better suited for off-road use, but London roads with all the humps and pot-holes seem well-suited tbh.

Having said that, you know your stuff and I am open-minded to suggestions. I am green when it comes to bikes in general and e-bikes in particular. For instance I had no idea about the potential PITA the breaks might pose. Perhaps you could post the kind of bike you are thinking of as an example to give me something to go on?

 

[amaroq]

The Carrera Crossfire 3 is nice.
I had originally considered a hybrid type bike, but this one has the mechanical disc brakes too and it's more than I wanna spend on a bike.

 

[amaroq]

Maybe, this Raleigh classic ticks the boxes, Alan?

• 21speed
• city puncture resistant tyres
• V brakes

The only thing missing are shocks which come in handy with the humps an bumps these days, esp. with a motor I would have thought?

Otherwise, I like a comfortable upright posture which this bike geometry provides
I presume the OxyDrive kit would fit on this too?

 

[Alan Quay]

Thank you for your comment, Alan.
Well, my journey to this bike was via a consideration to purchase an e-bike that happened to use this carrera vengeance. I hadn't set out looking for a mountain bike to begin with.
However, having tried it I was pleasantly surprised and delighted by the comfort. I've previously ridden a single-speed road bike, and my body took a lot of punishment. The knobbly wheels may be better suited for off-road use, but London roads with all the humps and pot-holes seem well-suited tbh.

Having said that, you know your stuff and I am open-minded to suggestions. I am green when it comes to bikes in general and e-bikes in particular. For instance I had no idea about the potential PITA the breaks might pose. Perhaps you could post the kind of bike you are thinking of as an example to give me something to go on?

It's hard to recommend a suitable bike, as it's such a personal thing. I was just giving you some food for thought.

You can get wide, slick tyres for mountain bikes. These give comfort, but none of the rumble of knobblies, and much better on-road grip. Schwalbe big apple or fat Frank. Both are puncture resistant.

If you commute in all weather you will want mudguards.

Wheel size doesn't matter too much unless you are tall/short. This 27.5" format may go out of fashion next year. It'll certainly limit your tyre choice. Also, be aware that some have a new type of hub that will not suit a hub motor.

If you are heavy, get hydraulic disks. If you are light you can get away with v-brakes.

If money is tight, consider second hand. You can get a lot for your money if you shop around on gumtree/eBay.

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[stevenatleven]

I considered the Vengenance for conversion, but at the last bank holiday sale they had the Kraken for 50 quid more with Hyd discs and a much better fork. I used a Oxydrive CST hub motor which accepts 8/9 speed well. The PAS sensor only works on the left crank so you might have a bit of crank changing as the Halfords Suntour cranks don,t leave enough room on the left side. I opted for new because it was a lot easier to get my size locally and with Halfords constant reductions the 2nd hand market tends to be overpriced. I think if you go for the Vengenance it will make a good bike for conversion.

 

[amaroq]

Hi Stevenatleven,

Thanks for the endorsement and sharing your experience with these.

Regarding the 2nd-hand market, I agree. I've found it generally very time-consuming and exhausting getting dragged all over London only to be disappointed. The last one I got was cheap enough, but immediately needed a bunch of stuff fixing, so, it didn't really work out cheaper, but because it is cheaper I found I tend to accept some compromise, like, maybe the frame is slightly too small for e.g.

"you might have a bit of crank changing"

Does that mean you replaced the crank with a different one?

Alternatively, for the same price I like the look of their Raleigh, but it comes in at 16kgs, 3 heavier than the Carrera. These e-bikes are heavy enough, so that puts me off.
Also, no shocks and tbh, I'm not a fan of V brakes particularly; although, easy to deal with, changing pads every 5 minutes gets tedious.
I have never had Disk breaks. And I can see that could get expensive if one needs a shop to fix or service them.

I'll go and have another look I guess.

 

[stevenatleven]

The crank spacing is a problem with the Halfords Suntour cranks. Have a look at them in the shop the crank is very close the the bottom bracket. (like a 1/16th) I have used longer BBs in the past ie 117.5 & 122 but it throws the chainline out. it is simpler to buy a cheap chainset off ebay and use that. Disc brakes be they mech or hyd are no more work than v brakes. pads are cheap and I have had a hyd disc that I have never looked at for years. They are so plentiful now that I would go for discs every time

 

[amaroq]

The crank spacing is a problem with the Halfords Suntour cranks. Have a look at them in the shop the crank is very close the the bottom bracket. (like a 1/16th) I have used longer BBs in the past ie 117.5 & 122 but it throws the chainline out. it is simpler to buy a cheap chainset off ebay and use that.

Still unclear what changing on the crank is required of me. Am I filing something down? or?