Carrera Sparc vs eZee Torq - Help Please!
- Thread starter davidro
- Start date
Flecc - I took a look at the links suggested and someone from Whisper posted this below. Mentions a derestricted mode plus other info. What do you think?
Hi Jed
The 905Se is based on the 905e, the frame and look will be exactly the same.
The concept behind the 905 series was to create an electric bike that one can happily cycle without power. With power on we wanted the cycle to morph into the most light weight and easily handled electric bike on the market. The 905e came close to this, however in the interest of keeping prices under £850.00 we used some components that were good but not perfect.
On the 905Se we have upgraded many of the parts to make the "power off" cycle even better to ride. We have also made use of the latest and most powerful lithium manganese battery that was not available a year ago.
The upgrades include;
7 Shimano Alivio gears. We have introduced a 11 cog high gear. Alivio chain, dérailleur and gear change system.
New 52 tooth chain wheel, five point hollow cranks and alloy pedals from Power Wheel.
New hi tensile stainless steel spokes.
New puncture resistant tyres and upgraded valves.
New metallic black paint work.
All nuts and bolts are now either stainless or alloy.
New upgraded main bearing and cassette style front wheel bearing.
Solar powered front light. Our EU bikes have a dynamo on the front wheel and superb permanent front and back lights, we are considering making these standard in the UK too.
Upgraded back light.
New Zoom adjustable front suspension.
Upgraded saddle suspension.
Choice of saddle styles.
New polycarbonate mudguards.
New 13.8 amp battery.
4 point switch, 1. power off, 2. Pedelec mode, 3. Ebike mode (with throttle), 4. Off road mode (de-restricted).
These are only 21 of the 42 improvements and changes made. As soon as the bike is on the market we will publish the complete list of improvements and changes.
The price for the 905Se will be £1000.00. As the bike has been such a hit in Europe we will only have limited numbers on the first container, but we are taking advanced orders with a 33% deposit.
Best regards David
Last edited by Wisper Bikes : 06-09-2007 at 12:52 PM.
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Hi Jed
The 905Se is based on the 905e, the frame and look will be exactly the same.
The concept behind the 905 series was to create an electric bike that one can happily cycle without power. With power on we wanted the cycle to morph into the most light weight and easily handled electric bike on the market. The 905e came close to this, however in the interest of keeping prices under £850.00 we used some components that were good but not perfect.
On the 905Se we have upgraded many of the parts to make the "power off" cycle even better to ride. We have also made use of the latest and most powerful lithium manganese battery that was not available a year ago.
The upgrades include;
7 Shimano Alivio gears. We have introduced a 11 cog high gear. Alivio chain, dérailleur and gear change system.
New 52 tooth chain wheel, five point hollow cranks and alloy pedals from Power Wheel.
New hi tensile stainless steel spokes.
New puncture resistant tyres and upgraded valves.
New metallic black paint work.
All nuts and bolts are now either stainless or alloy.
New upgraded main bearing and cassette style front wheel bearing.
Solar powered front light. Our EU bikes have a dynamo on the front wheel and superb permanent front and back lights, we are considering making these standard in the UK too.
Upgraded back light.
New Zoom adjustable front suspension.
Upgraded saddle suspension.
Choice of saddle styles.
New polycarbonate mudguards.
New 13.8 amp battery.
4 point switch, 1. power off, 2. Pedelec mode, 3. Ebike mode (with throttle), 4. Off road mode (de-restricted).
These are only 21 of the 42 improvements and changes made. As soon as the bike is on the market we will publish the complete list of improvements and changes.
The price for the 905Se will be £1000.00. As the bike has been such a hit in Europe we will only have limited numbers on the first container, but we are taking advanced orders with a 33% deposit.
Best regards David
Last edited by Wisper Bikes : 06-09-2007 at 12:52 PM.
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Hi David, I had seen that, but missed the mention of the derestricted mode, thanks for drawing my attention to it.
That seems to indicate a probability of somewhere around the Torq performance potential then, but I'm still surprised at no mention of the actual top speed, something that is published for the Torq.
Much depends on whether they boosted the power from the standard 905e, which I'd estimate as around 500 watts gross. The rigid fork Torq is 576 watts gross, and the trekking version has been boosted a bit, but we don't know how much.
I do like the sound of that battery though, partly because the larger capacity will mean less chance of power cut outs under load, partly because the chemistry is slightly different (compound cathode) and that can also mean a slightly better current issue capability. That's the theory though, and only testing will show the extent of the improvement gained.
Still no gearing information, but it's bound to be commensurate with the speed capability, so not too different from the Torq's, though the gear system with a rear motor is weaker, based on a multi sprocket freewheel rather than the normal stronger cassette system. The freewheel will almost certainly be Shimano's HG50 model, better than their Cadet series, bit still nowhere near as good as a cassette. I use these myself on two bikes and they do work, but it's as well to know that they're not as tough.
.
That seems to indicate a probability of somewhere around the Torq performance potential then, but I'm still surprised at no mention of the actual top speed, something that is published for the Torq.
Much depends on whether they boosted the power from the standard 905e, which I'd estimate as around 500 watts gross. The rigid fork Torq is 576 watts gross, and the trekking version has been boosted a bit, but we don't know how much.
I do like the sound of that battery though, partly because the larger capacity will mean less chance of power cut outs under load, partly because the chemistry is slightly different (compound cathode) and that can also mean a slightly better current issue capability. That's the theory though, and only testing will show the extent of the improvement gained.
Still no gearing information, but it's bound to be commensurate with the speed capability, so not too different from the Torq's, though the gear system with a rear motor is weaker, based on a multi sprocket freewheel rather than the normal stronger cassette system. The freewheel will almost certainly be Shimano's HG50 model, better than their Cadet series, bit still nowhere near as good as a cassette. I use these myself on two bikes and they do work, but it's as well to know that they're not as tough.
.
The only mention of speed I recall was 34mphback in June, though my request for controller current limit was unanswered so peak power is still unknown, though its no higher than 720W gross given the battery protection limit of 20A, and to attain speeds of 34mph with a 'single-gear' hub motor suggests either a very high rpm motor or a lot of pedal assist (not stated), the former would seem to imply a very high 'peak torque' speed (higher than the Torq & F series I expect) & put a large strain on batteries, especially on steeper hills, which I expect would have to be climbed with the motor running at a low energy efficiency? That might explain the difference in range between city (34miles) and sport (21miles), the latter seeming particularly low for a 13.8 Ah 36V (497Wh) battery.
I expect some degree of pedalling was involved to get to 34mph though because it was posted barely a week after Scott posted a similar speed on a forza on a track
. I still don't see how either managed to get those sorts of speeds.
The given top gear of 52 front 11 rear, with 26" wheels, would give a top gear only very slightly above the standard Torq, and allow pedal assist up to 30mph with a 90 cadence, but I wouldn't expect to get great range at that speed, especially if its hilly!
I expect some degree of pedalling was involved to get to 34mph though because it was posted barely a week after Scott posted a similar speed on a forza on a track
. I still don't see how either managed to get those sorts of speeds.The given top gear of 52 front 11 rear, with 26" wheels, would give a top gear only very slightly above the standard Torq, and allow pedal assist up to 30mph
with a 90 cadence, but I wouldn't expect to get great range at that speed, especially if its hilly!
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I'll stick my neck out and say those speeds are impossible on the production models, and bear absolutely no relation to the bike's motors anyway, regardless of what was done on the controllers. The would need much higher voltages for the motors to get near the speed.
The fact is that some while after that Dick Lai "feat", the 905se sent to New Milton wasn't even a 905se anyway, just a mockup as the designed bike wasn't ready. That was months ago and we've had to wait almost until now for the actual model to start appearing. Whatever Dick Lai rode, it obviously wasn't the 905se that we might eventually be able to buy.
We've seen this sort of nonsense before of course, as I warned at the time, with the much trumpetted Schwinn e-bike that did wonders (they said). As I said at the time, it didn't, it still doesn't, A to B have said the design is nowhere near ready for the market and it's now been withdrawn by Schwinn.
Hype has zero value, only tested and measured facts count.
.
The fact is that some while after that Dick Lai "feat", the 905se sent to New Milton wasn't even a 905se anyway, just a mockup as the designed bike wasn't ready. That was months ago and we've had to wait almost until now for the actual model to start appearing. Whatever Dick Lai rode, it obviously wasn't the 905se that we might eventually be able to buy.
We've seen this sort of nonsense before of course, as I warned at the time, with the much trumpetted Schwinn e-bike that did wonders (they said). As I said at the time, it didn't, it still doesn't, A to B have said the design is nowhere near ready for the market and it's now been withdrawn by Schwinn.
Hype has zero value, only tested and measured facts count.
.
This is all really frustrating, perhaps we can get the guy from Wisper (David) to comment on all of this and end the speculation about the performance for the 905SE?
I guess ultimately what we all want to know is - is the new 905SE better than the Torq?
I guess ultimately what we all want to know is - is the new 905SE better than the Torq?
But it won't end it David, asking the person who wants to sell it won't tell you anything more than we know already, only an independent fact based opinion or personal trial can tell you that.
If we have no success in getting that, I'd be inclined to observe that old maxim, better the devil you know.
But of course I would say that after riding a Torq for a long time.
.
I would question the legality of a switched de-restricted mode, there is no doubt about the legality of the Torq as a physical modification is required to de-restrict it and the manufacturers don't tell us how to do it.
I would guess this could cause the 905SE to fall foul of the the forthcoming CEN standards, the purpose of which is to ensure that only safe and legal bikes can be sold in the EU.
I would guess this could cause the 905SE to fall foul of the the forthcoming CEN standards, the purpose of which is to ensure that only safe and legal bikes can be sold in the EU.
If you really are from 50 cycles, then I'd hope you can do a bit better than that to convince me of the value of your product?
Because from where I'm standing the 905SE seems to beat the Torq spec in a number of areas and is actually £50 cheaper.....
- bigger capacity, newer design lithium battery
- lighter frame
- arguably better looks
- company has battery recycle scheme saving money on replacement
Plus apparently they are in stock at Electric Transport Shop. Despite repeated emails to James to at 50 cycles to resolve my questions around cycle to work and some technical torq queries, no one has got back to me with a reply, and it seems availability is very limited.
Now perhaps you can convince me of the superiority of the Torq with a more factual argument?
Thanks, David
Posted this in the New Torq Trekking Downgraded thread yesterday, but can't get a response to it from 50cycles through the forum or email, so I am trying again here. Message was:- Can you please be specific about the spec of the "current shipment", what exactly is the spec? What will the delivery date be? What does the guarantee cover and for how long?
Do you require a deposit if I place an order?
I sent 2 emails yesterday and have not received a reply to the 2nd one?
Thanks
I've been asked to clarify my earlier post regarding 50cycles not replying to my emails.
There was a misunderstanding about a particular query which was related to the bikes4work scheme, and both 50cycles and Halfords did not reply. However 50cycles have answered all my other queries promptly and without chasing.
The issue of availability and confirmation of the spec for the Torq does remain however. And 50cycles confirm that the next shipment of the torq will not be available until 22nd December, with final spec yet to be confirmed.
I apologise for any undue criticism of 50cycles but would hope that they can resolve the supply problems and spec uncertainties with this model ASAP.
I have decided to postpone buying a bike until next year's bikes4work scheme when hopefully electric bikes will be available in greater numbers and uncertainties regarding battery type and performance have hopefully been settled one way or the other.
Thanks for all of your input to my questions.
Regards
David
There was a misunderstanding about a particular query which was related to the bikes4work scheme, and both 50cycles and Halfords did not reply. However 50cycles have answered all my other queries promptly and without chasing.
The issue of availability and confirmation of the spec for the Torq does remain however. And 50cycles confirm that the next shipment of the torq will not be available until 22nd December, with final spec yet to be confirmed.
I apologise for any undue criticism of 50cycles but would hope that they can resolve the supply problems and spec uncertainties with this model ASAP.
I have decided to postpone buying a bike until next year's bikes4work scheme when hopefully electric bikes will be available in greater numbers and uncertainties regarding battery type and performance have hopefully been settled one way or the other.
Thanks for all of your input to my questions.
Regards
David
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