Carrera Battery alteration

[Nealh]

So really any battery can become faulty regardless of who buys and sells it Or manufacturers it to some degree.

This explains the new Solar Regs a 15KW battery fire for instance would be a disaster !!

And all the people who have had large batteries fitted indoors should really think about seriously having them boxed in with fire board. And the ones on the out side too.

Any one in their right mind would never buy Lion for solar installs, LFP or as we like to call them lifepo4 are much safer for static use.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Bear in mind when you change the BMS it is unlikely that the original charger will work. You will have removed some of the safety features that have been added to these systems e.g. verification that the correct battery is connected to the charger and in some cases more information is shared.

yes I saw when I caused the shut down of the battery by connecting it to the KT controller and the Suntours motor without connecting the Two small wires from the battery mount that

when The battery continued to flash all lights in fault mode .
when I plugged in the charger that also flashed red and green I guessed it was flashing to signal a fault .

worried all night after putting the battery out in the shed that I had shorted it out !

Next morning searched u tube and found out how to simply reset by holding the button down for 30 seconds.

I just watched my first battery building video on u tube !

probally should have done this first before conducting experiments

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Any one in their right mind would never buy Lion for solar installs, LFP or as we like to call them lifepo4 are much safer for static use.

My guy uses Tesla, Solar Edge or Enphase if the budget allows .
I am hearing things about Solid State batteries not quite sure why they say it’s years away .
Or what they are yet ?

Solar is the future thats why now all the big players are already squeezing out the smaller companies if every one had solar installations including all the big city industrial buildings them combine with wind turbines small ones too that could be turned by steam produced by solar energy when it’s not windy we could do away with every thing else eventually.

Regardless of the monetary cost after all how much is the earth worth ?

 

[chris_n]

yes I saw when I caused the shut down of the battery by connecting it to the KT controller and the Suntours motor without connecting the Two small wires from the battery mount that

when The battery continued to flash all lights in fault mode .
when I plugged in the charger that also flashed red and green I guessed it was flashing to signal a fault .

worried all night after putting the battery out in the shed that I had shorted it out !

Next morning searched u tube and found out how to simply reset by holding the button down for 30 seconds.

I just watched my first battery building video on u tube !

probally should have done this first before conducting experiments

What are you going to connect the 2 small wires too?
You are clearly playing with things that you don't fully understand, that is not a criticism as that is often how we learn. However in the case of batteries getting it wrong could be very expensive and not just in monetary terms. You are effectively playing with a blow torch next to a petrol can so please ask questions and fully understand the implications of what you are proposing before doing anything.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

What are you going to connect the 2 small wires too?
You are clearly playing with things that you don't fully understand, that is not a criticism as that is often how we learn. However in the case of batteries getting it wrong could be very expensive and not just in monetary terms. You are effectively playing with a blow torch next to a petrol can so please ask questions and fully understand the implications of what you are proposing before doing anything.

Hi Chris .
Thanks for your concern but I would not have connected the Two small wires together without getting some advise from a qualified person.

But thinking about it if I was to get a broken Carrera controller and take it apart then identify the part the Two small wires are being connected to I wonder if it would be possible to isolate this part and cut it away from the rest of the controller so the Carrera battery is fooled into thinking it communicating with original battery any thought s on that from the guys who do this sort of thing on here ?

The Carrera Battery is on sale on the Gumtree so hopefully it will sell and I will not need to ask a battery engineer to help me change the BMS even if it’s a viable option

 

[chris_n]

Your reply does nothing to allay my fears, first I should say I have no direct knowledge of various models of Carrera bikes and batteries.
It is vaguely possible that an extra terminal could connect to a thermistor to ensure the battery isn't overheating but that is something that is more common on power tool batteries. I would be very surprised and worried if it was used in that way on an ebike battery.
The 2 wires will be used for some form of communication / handshaking and will not be able to be shorted or connected in any way without the correct communication taking place. If you managed to isolate the comms section of the controller how would you then fool it into thinking the rest ot the system (motor, display etc) were present and correct.
It may be possible to replace the BMS to make it work with something else but as I said before the charger wouldn't work due to the same lack of communications.

 

[saneagle]

Hi Chris .
Thanks for your concern but I would not have connected the Two small wires together without getting some advise from a qualified person.

But thinking about it if I was to get a broken Carrera controller and take it apart then identify the part the Two small wires are being connected to I wonder if it would be possible to isolate this part and cut it away from the rest of the controller so the Carrera battery is fooled into thinking it communicating with original battery any thought s on that from the guys who do this sort of thing on here ?

The Carrera Battery is on sale on the Gumtree so hopefully it will sell and I will not need to ask a battery engineer to help me change the BMS even if it’s a viable option

The two wires are data that go straight to the CPU. You can't isolate them. They're needed for the instruction to switch on power from the battery.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Thanks Chris and Senegal

So if you had an old Carrera controller that had a different fault so of no use.
Then put power to it from the red and black wires then connected the two small wires to where they are designed to fit .
But then do not connect any of the other plugs Insulate and cap them off .

T into the live and negative to get a feed for the KT controller.

Then from the KT controller connect all the other components so the KT will run the bike but the battery will connect to the original ECU which will also have power but will not actually be controlling any thing except the battery .

would that work as if all the metal housing and any thing else not needed was stripped from the original ECU it would end up very small and it’s only function would be to communicate with the battery Some insulation and light shrink wrap to protect it all .

would that work ?

 

[chris_n]

Thanks Chris and Senegal

So if you had an old Carrera controller that had a different fault so of no use.
Then put power to it from the red and black wires then connected the two small wires to where they are designed to fit .
But then do not connect any of the other plugs Insulate and cap them off .

T into the live and negative to get a feed for the KT controller.

Then from the KT controller connect all the other components so the KT will run the bike but the battery will connect to the original ECU which will also have power but will not actually be controlling any thing except the battery .

would that work as if all the metal housing and any thing else not needed was stripped from the original ECU it would end up very small and it’s only function would be to communicate with the battery Some insulation and light shrink wrap to protect it all .

would that work ?

Shouldn'thave thought so, in the unlikely event you got it to power up the Carrera controller wouldn't see a speed signal so would shut down all power by telling the battery to shut down.
It's like trying to put a modern fuel injection Audi engine in a Mk1 Escort, if you really knew what you were doing and could make parts anything is possible but it's not just going to drop in and work.

 

[saneagle]

Thanks Chris and Senegal

So if you had an old Carrera controller that had a different fault so of no use.
Then put power to it from the red and black wires then connected the two small wires to where they are designed to fit .
But then do not connect any of the other plugs Insulate and cap them off .

T into the live and negative to get a feed for the KT controller.

Then from the KT controller connect all the other components so the KT will run the bike but the battery will connect to the original ECU which will also have power but will not actually be controlling any thing except the battery .

would that work as if all the metal housing and any thing else not needed was stripped from the original ECU it would end up very small and it’s only function would be to communicate with the battery Some insulation and light shrink wrap to protect it all .

would that work ?

It might work and might depend on which version of the controller and control panel you have. The control panel would need to be switched on. I'm not sure about the sleep mode, though it's easy to test - just switch on and see whether it stays on after 10 minutes. It's possible that you might be able to disable the sleep in the settings if you have an LCD. You'd have to look in the manual for your specific control panel. I would think that the Control panels without speed display would probably stay on, but you can test it.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

It might work and might depend on which version of the controller and control panel you have. The control panel would need to be switched on. I'm not sure about the sleep mode, though it's easy to test - just switch on and see whether it stays on after 10 minutes. It's possible that you might be able to disable the sleep in the settings if you have an LCD. You'd have to look in the manual for your specific control panel. I would think that the Control panels without speed display would probably stay on, but you can test it.

Ok sounds interesting which KT Controller or LCD would you think might work .
I am trying to source a faulty Carrera controller say with a hall error on the motor as we will be disabling that any way

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Shouldn'thave thought so, in the unlikely event you got it to power up the Carrera controller wouldn't see a speed signal so would shut down all power by telling the battery to shut down.
It's like trying to put a modern fuel injection Audi engine in a Mk1 Escort, if you really knew what you were doing and could make parts anything is possible but it's not just going to drop in and work.

Thanks Chris I see what you mean but not sure it will not work , but I think I will give it a try
once I find faulty Carrera controller as in the post to Saneagle

 

[saneagle]

Ok sounds interesting which KT Controller or LCD would you think might work .
I am trying to source a faulty Carrera controller say with a hall error on the motor as we will be disabling that any way

They all work the same, though some have extra cables for EABS and things like that. Basically, there are two arrangements - sealed connectors or block type connectors. I prefer block type because they're easy to test. If you're not too heavy 15A would be OK, otherwise you can find 17A, 20A and 22A versions. I've seen the gears stripped by someone running at 48v, but I don't know what current that was, so I'd advise to tun with no more current than what you need.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

They all work the same, though some have extra cables for EABS and things like that. Basically, there are two arrangements - sealed connectors or block type connectors. I prefer block type because they're easy to test. If you're not too heavy 15A would be OK, otherwise you can find 17A, 20A and 22A versions. I've seen the gears stripped by someone running at 48v, but I don't know what current that was, so I'd advise to tun with no more current than what you need.

Thanks I am going to start to learn some basic electrical/electronic skills I have basic construction electrical so not totally green.

I think I will rig up a temporary test on the Ideal using the Carrera controller that has no fault and is linked to the battery and see how it work‘s on a throttle with the KT in the earlier photo.

let you know how it goes

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Shouldn'thave thought so, in the unlikely event you got it to power up the Carrera controller wouldn't see a speed signal so would shut down all power by telling the battery to shut down.
It's like trying to put a modern fuel injection Audi engine in a Mk1 Escort, if you really knew what you were doing and could make parts anything is possible but it's not just going to drop in and work.

Reminds me of when I was 18 and we used to put V8 Rover Engins with Twin Webers into Mark 1 Ford Capris on guy also took out the front seats and rigged the car to drive it from the back seats.

Could you imagine trying to get that insured nowadays!

But going back to the bike do you not think if its only the battery communicating with the Carrera controller that it recognises and is not connected in any way save for the power cables to any thing else then it will not know what the rest of the bike is doing ?

 

[matthewslack]

If the motor is a standard 9 pin cable, then your worst case is needing battery, controller and the display all connected but doing nothing, and as you mentioned, T off for the KT bits and pieces.

I suspect the controller might be unhappy if not connected to the m9tor, but I don't know. If the existing controller is as dumb as the motor i.e. no comms with battery or display, then you might only need those bits.

Play around and lets us know!

 

[Baz the balloon man]

If the motor is a standard 9 pin cable, then your worst case is needing battery, controller and the display all connected but doing nothing, and as you mentioned, T off for the KT bits and pieces.

I suspect the controller might be unhappy if not connected to the m9tor, but I don't know. If the existing controller is as dumb as the motor i.e. no comms with battery or display, then you might only need those bits.

Play around and lets us know!

HI Matthew.

I have already contacted the KT controller to the Carrera motor cable extension , I have done it before with a YOSE controller and it worked great
The Suntours motor was just as strong and fast as a 350W YOSE motor once free of the Carrera controller. It was of an older Vulcan so not sure yet if the Vengence motor will be as good.

I just bought another Three ex display Carreras Vulcan, Older Vengence and a Cross fire that I am going to break and sell as spares on e bay so I will have some options to build my own bike .

And a Bird Bike Spares or repair I will probably break this too as I can not find any one still selling spares.