Carrera Battery alteration

[Baz the balloon man]

Hi All

Because e bay have now stopped the trade in SH batteries.

I was just wondering how difficult it would be for a professional battery engineer to remove the link from the Carrera batteries to allow them to work with other controllers?

Obviously because of there cost it was better to sell them and buy an after market kit if One wanted to change the the system on a Carrera .

If it’s some thing that can be done relatively easily I am assuming that it’s being done with the Two smaller wires that go to the battery from the Suntours controller?

What is a fair cost retail for this if it’s possible?

This would aid those who want to then change just the Controller and PAS so they do not have to fork out £80.00 quid for a Carrera PAS and fit throttles for instance.

I have found that the KT controller the smaller one fits nicely into the Carrera Housing at the bottom of the frame , so if this could be done there would be no need to swap the battery out .

Cheers

Baz

 

[saneagle]

Hi All

Because e bay have now stopped the trade in SH batteries.

I was just wondering how difficult it would be for a professional battery engineer to remove the link from the Carrera batteries to allow them to work with other controllers?

Obviously because of there cost it was better to sell them and buy an after market kit if One wanted to change the the system on a Carrera .

If it’s some thing that can be done relatively easily I am assuming that it’s being done with the Two smaller wires that go to the battery from the Suntours controller?

What is a fair cost retail for this if it’s possible?

This would aid those who want to then change just the Controller and PAS so they do not have to fork out £80.00 quid for a Carrera PAS and fit throttles for instance.

I have found that the KT controller the smaller one fits nicely into the Carrera Housing at the bottom of the frame , so if this could be done there would be no need to swap the battery out .

Cheers

Baz

You have to buy a new controller and chuck the Suntour torque sensor system. Basically, chuck every electrical component except the motor. The cheapest you can do it is about £40, but it's better to do it properly with a KT controller set, which is about £80. That's just the electrical stuff. You can keep the old cranks with the torque sensor, otherwise you can save some weight by fitting conventional cranks.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Morning yes I understand that but because it’s now so difficult to sell a relatively new battery which pays for a whole new aftermarket kit .

It’s just the battery issue ie can we keep the original battery ? And Suntour motor so reversing what is usually done because of the cost of Carrera batteries and the difficulty in selling them now .
Once the battery reaches end of life an after market replacement could then just be swapped out.

I already tried to connect the Carrera battery to a KT controller but it made the battery go into fault mode which I had to clear.

Could the Two smaller wires coming from the battery mount be connected to complete the circuit ie so it’s not communicating with the controller leaving only the plus and negative wires connected ?

It’s not something I am trying DIY if it means opening up the battery.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

This
I would like to keep just Suntour Motor and Carrera battery .

Swap out everything else then also add a rear rack battery so I can ditch the car and do solar surveys around London by bike in the new year.

So Two batteries on the bike one Carrera one probably YOSE . If it can be done ?

 

[thelarkbox]

If i understand correctly and your original battery has a 'smart' or proprietary bms fitted with coms to the original control system. then you would need to replace this with a more generic bms in order to use without any coms blocks in the way.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

If i understand correctly and your original battery has a 'smart' or proprietary bms fitted with coms to the original control system. then you would need to replace this with a more generic bms in order to use without any coms blocks in the way.

Yes I think that’s what I need . If it’s viable so a basic BMS like in a HL battery for instance .
I do not see why SH BMS parts if they would be compatible as the battery is SH

 

[Baz the balloon man]

This is what happens in a nanny state when Prohibition’s are introduced into a free market place .
One could argue do more harm than good In a lot of cases.

 

[saneagle]

This is what happens in a nanny state when Prohibition’s are introduced into a free market place .
One could argue do more harm than good In a lot of cases.

The controls are designed to stop people from burning down their houses unnecessarily. It's the same as having seat belts in a car to protect people against going through the windscreen when they crash because most people think crashes only happen to other people.

You'd be surprised about how many regulations there are for car seats to stop people having their legs cut off in an accident or breaking their hips from the seatbelt and things like that.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

The controls are designed to stop people from burning down their houses unnecessarily. It's the same as having seat belts in a car to protect people against going through the windscreen when they crash because most people think crashes only happen to other people.

You'd be surprised about how many regulations there are for car seats to stop people having their legs cut off in an accident or breaking their hips from the seatbelt and things like that.

yes totally agree , new regs in solar now prevent installation of batteries inside the house ie the loft for instance and it’s a good thing.

But when you have perfectly good branded CE marked products ie Carrera batteries for instance then to stop people basically selling these products SH causes people to try work arounds .

like taking them to a professional battery engineers and asking them to change the BMS so it can still work with other perfectly good components if it’s a viable option rather than not being able to sell it then buy a different batteri of ones choice .

I suppose PAC testing is not relevant to battery packs on any appliance ? To allow resale .

or is there a recognised safety test to allow resale like PAC ?

There are already companies springing up offering Battery servicing which as you said in a different post means not a lot including Halfords who claim to sell reconditioned batteries.

or maybe we should all recharge our batteries in a fire proof box or outside .

I fully understand and agree with the danger thats why I would not mess around my self with a battery or even open one unless I was qualified to do so.

so I need to find a reputable battery engineer and see how much it would cost to replace the Carrera battery BMS to achieve what I want to do ?

 

[thelarkbox]

If happy to use a soldering iron, and in possession of a calm temperament, a bms exchange should be a manageable job to undertake yourself. As long as you buy wisely and ensure that you have ample and good documentation for the bms you buy ( chase down and save/print - digest links in advance of clicking buy.. ) And spend an evening or two watching youtube how to vids. you only need to identify the battery charge and discharge connections correctly and get the sense wire order correct in order to be well prepared for the job.

Im not suggesting you forget the healthy respect you have for batteries and the dangers involved, but instead plan carefully with the dangers in mind and proceed step by step along a planned route.

If planning to be involved with ebikes basic battery maintenance would be very useful skills to acquire.

Fwiw i overcame my own reluctance to 'hack' my battery devoid of an isolation switch in an attempt to add one..
As is the suggested installing a switch into a sense wire fix failed to produce the desired outcome so all i ended up doing was adding a few grams of solder and heat shrink backtracking my mods. but I am now less fearful of cracking the next battery case if/when needed..

 

[flecc]

I suppose PAC testing is not relevant to battery packs on any appliance ? To allow resale .

or is there a recognised safety test to allow resale like PAC ?

PAC is now an obsolete term, now it's PAT, Portable Appliance Testing of electrical condition.

But that cannot exist for batteries to be declared safe to use since batteries are chemical devices, which can suffer extremely dangerous chemical failures that usually cannot be identified before the failure occurs.
.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

PAC is now an obsolete term, now it's PAT, Portable Appliance Testing of electrical condition.

But that cannot exist for batteries to be declared safe to use since batteries are chemical devices, which can suffer extremely dangerous chemical failures that usually cannot be identified before the failure occurs.
.

So really any battery can become faulty regardless of who buys and sells it Or manufacturers it to some degree.

This explains the new Solar Regs a 15KW battery fire for instance would be a disaster !!

And all the people who have had large batteries fitted indoors should really think about seriously having them boxed in with fire board. And the ones on the out side too.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

If happy to use a soldering iron, and in possession of a calm temperament, a bms exchange should be a manageable job to undertake yourself. As long as you buy wisely and ensure that you have ample and good documentation for the bms you buy ( chase down and save/print - digest links in advance of clicking buy.. ) And spend an evening or two watching youtube how to vids. you only need to identify the battery charge and discharge connections correctly and get the sense wire order correct in order to be well prepared for the job.

Im not suggesting you forget the healthy respect you have for batteries and the dangers involved, but instead plan carefully with the dangers in mind and proceed step by step along a planned route.

If planning to be involved with ebikes basic battery maintenance would be very useful skills to acquire.

Fwiw i overcame my own reluctance to 'hack' my battery devoid of an isolation switch in an attempt to add one..
As is the suggested installing a switch into a sense wire fix failed to produce the desired outcome so all i ended up doing was adding a few grams of solder and heat shrink backtracking my mods. but I am now less fearful of cracking the next battery case if/when needed..

Thanks yes happy to solder I used to make Scale electric cars when I was 11 or so LOL.

And fix Slush machine s when I was a bit older and on the most part can fix my own appliances.
i recently built a gas BBQ from an old electric Bain Marie trolly the Calor Gas engineer said I was competent and when finished he would give me a safety certificate.

But I have never really got into electronics but think I would like to even go do a few evening classes as a hobby Or to get some level of skill in this Area

Do you have any recommendations for a replacement BMS I see top bike sell them ?

 

[flecc]

So really any battery can become faulty regardless of who buys and sells it Or manufacturers it to some degree.

With lithium-ion batteries the only safeguard is manufacturing with highest quality control of every process. A lack of sufficient care in cell manufacture can result in the formation of dendrites within the battery cells, sharp edged growths that pierce internal insulation and set off short circuits and fires. One cell going up can then set off a chain reaction through all the cells with explosive consequences.

The further complication is that there is no certain way of extinguishing a lithium battery fire. Allowing a controlled burn is currently the best way to deal with such a fire.
.

 

[thelarkbox]

Thanks yes happy to solder I used to make Scale electric cars when I was 11 or so LOL.

And fix Slush machine s when I was a bit older and on the most part can fix my own appliances.
i recently built a gas BBQ from an old electric Bain Marie trolly the Calor Gas engineer said I was competent and when finished he would give me a safety certificate.

But I have never really got into electronics but think I would like to even go do a few evening classes as a hobby Or to get some level of skill in this Area

Do you have any recommendations for a replacement BMS I see top bike sell them ?

Cant provide any recommendations as my issue didnt warrant that (yet), but having read the odd post where folk have bought 'blind' and have been confused by sense wire orientation/count suggest that a pre buy crack of the battery and count /check of the current system and connections so a like for like (connection wise) replacement is sourced . you wont find the same plug option so will still have to replace the sense wires but replacing 11x wires with a set of 11 wires is going to be a lot less stressful and problematic than trying to connect 12x or 13x wires to 11 x locations for example.

So i would suggest checking whats going on inside your battery and compare against bms documentation prior to buying. But afaik TBK are a trusted supplier of kt controllers etc so i would feel safe buying a bms from them (if well documented)

the above examples may have been high spec bms boards with multi volt battery options ie 36v and 48v etc... hence more optional sense wires.. specific details are forgotten but the above is what was retained..

 

[egroover]

Baz, not sure if you are after a new carrera compatible battery ? - this one fits the original crossfire-e and similar other previous design carrera vengence ect. Comes with charger, and new mounting kit (you won't need that if using existing mount). It's a simplier design so you don't get to see the % remaining on the display, just the battery bars, but it works fine, I have one on my crossfire-e

36V 11.6Ah/14Ah Original Li-ion Cell Lithium-ion Battery Electric Bicycle for Phylion SF-06L JOYCUBE/JCEB360-11.6

Upgrade your electric bicycle with our 36V 11.6Ah Original Li-ion Cell Lithium-ion Battery, specifically designed for Phylion SF-06L JOYCUBE/JCEB360-11.6 models, ensuring optimal performance and extended ride times.

yosepower.com

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Baz, not sure if you are after a new carrera compatible battery ? - this one fits the original crossfire-e and similar other previous design carrera vengence ect. Comes with charger, and new mounting kit (you won't need that if using existing mount). It's a simplier design so you don't get to see the % remaining on the display, just the battery bars, but it works fine, I have one on my crossfire-e

36V 11.6Ah/14Ah Original Li-ion Cell Lithium-ion Battery Electric Bicycle for Phylion SF-06L JOYCUBE/JCEB360-11.6

Upgrade your electric bicycle with our 36V 11.6Ah Original Li-ion Cell Lithium-ion Battery, specifically designed for Phylion SF-06L JOYCUBE/JCEB360-11.6 models, ensuring optimal performance and extended ride times.

yosepower.com

Hi yes I looked at these when I bought an ex display Carrera Vulcan a few moths ago which I sold.
After making a light weight Giant with a Yose Kit which also works very well in my opinion compared to factory built GIANT SO 400 QUID V 3K !
I want to go back to an MTB for riding around London its suits me better.

But because I can not now sell the Carrera Battery on e bay and so far have had no luck on other platforms I thought to look at this the other way round ie keep Suntour motor and original battery and swap out the rest of the e parts .

I was hoping it might be relatively easy so that other owners of Carreras could benefit from buying cheaper spares like YOSE and KT whilst keeping the battery and motor On the Carrera until they fail.

Also when Battery or motor needed replacing then they to could be swapped out for cheaper after market parts especially younger people who’s budget may not stretch to the cost of Halfords spares which seem to be expensive and not to reliable.

Thats my basic thinking of wanting to do it obviously selling an original battery on e bay for between 2 to 300 quid depending on its age and usage and then the other spares pays for a whole new kit and battery plus the Carrera Vengence is a good solid bike.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Cant provide any recommendations as my issue didnt warrant that (yet), but having read the odd post where folk have bought 'blind' and have been confused by sense wire orientation/count suggest that a pre buy crack of the battery and count /check of the current system and connections so a like for like (connection wise) replacement is sourced . you wont find the same plug option so will still have to replace the sense wires but replacing 11x wires with a set of 11 wires is going to be a lot less stressful and problematic than trying to connect 12x or 13x wires to 11 x locations for example.

So i would suggest checking whats going on inside your battery and compare against bms documentation prior to buying. But afaik TBK are a trusted supplier of kt controllers etc so i would feel safe buying a bms from them (if well documented)

the above examples may have been high spec bms boards with multi volt battery options ie 36v and 48v etc... hence more optional sense wires.. specific details are forgotten but the above is what was retained..

Thanks at the moment I think a local battery specialist will be the way to go until I have more hands on experience if it is even viable or cost effective long term .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Cant provide any recommendations as my issue didnt warrant that (yet), but having read the odd post where folk have bought 'blind' and have been confused by sense wire orientation/count suggest that a pre buy crack of the battery and count /check of the current system and connections so a like for like (connection wise) replacement is sourced . you wont find the same plug option so will still have to replace the sense wires but replacing 11x wires with a set of 11 wires is going to be a lot less stressful and problematic than trying to connect 12x or 13x wires to 11 x locations for example.

So i would suggest checking whats going on inside your battery and compare against bms documentation prior to buying. But afaik TBK are a trusted supplier of kt controllers etc so i would feel safe buying a bms from them (if well documented)

the above examples may have been high spec bms boards with multi volt battery options ie 36v and 48v etc... hence more optional sense wires.. specific details are forgotten but the above is what was retained..

YOSE sell the after market Phylion Carrera replacement I suspect this is a HL product sold under license so I was thinking along the lines that this BMS might do the job ?

 

[chris_n]

Bear in mind when you change the BMS it is unlikely that the original charger will work. You will have removed some of the safety features that have been added to these systems e.g. verification that the correct battery is connected to the charger and in some cases more information is shared.