Carbon-Mtb build for various dropout

[mechaniker]

I did had a bit time and bought myself a Carbon-Fiber MTB frame for 148mm thru-axle because I ordered a motor for this purpose but unfortunaely the motormanufacturer is still not ready with this new developed 2,4kg motor which has 50nm of torque. Fortunately the frame was send with drop-out for 148mm thru axle and for standard-motoraxle 10/12 mm and since the shengyi-x2 is anyways more 140mm wide as 135mm I was able to plug it with some washer into the frame. This Motor has a cassette integrated torque-sensor from Kclamber inside for SRAM-Cassette
I installed our new Lishui (LD-89) controller withroundabout the size of a common 6-fet controller but able to take 14s battery and able to push max current of 40amps I use only max 16amps which give a 800watt on my wattmeter
The frame came in grey color so I first painted the frame into a metallic blue
I use 12-speed sram cassette because of the 10-teeth sprocket and shimano gear-shifter and after a bit of adjustment it works perfectly fine together
The battery 48v/13a came from yose and was cause of the weight a bit shaking on the downtube and I was scared it will sooner or later damage the carbon frame so I made a holder to the seat-tube and now it has no sidemovement anymore but the downtube still can work
The controller I build onto the Hollowtech bearings with a heattransfer plate, not the best position for rough terrain but this bike is just to show what is possible at bike-manufacturer meetings and has steet-tire anyways 2,2 continental 27,5 because I hate noise
As Display I´m using my most favourite Key-Display KD-1386 which has also bluetooth screen-overlay for the Navie-app

 

[flecc]

Very smart job Frank, good to see you posting here again.
.

 

[Az.]

Cable coming out of the motor should go down not up, to prevent water ingress.

I am not sure if your tires are a good choice for MTB.

 

[saneagle]

About 12 years ago Kudos made a bike with a carbon frame and a 3kg downtube-mounted battery. They also made the same bike with an aluminium frame. There were no problems with the aluminium frame, but the rivnuts ripped out of a large number of the carbon frames. Eventually, Kudos sold off all remaining stock cheap on Ebay with a recommendation to strengthen the battery fixings. Details here post #23:

Kudos is clearing out our old test bikes on e-bay

We now have a Carbon Fibre Mountain Bike Ebike on Ebay, low and realistic reserve. Details on the link below:- Electric Bike Ebike Carbon Fibre 18" Frame Mountain Bike Li-Ion 8Fun Motor 250W | eBay Keep track of news from Kudos, Ebike related topics and more by clicking "LIKE" on our FB...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[Woosh]

Cable coming out of the motor should go down not up, to prevent water ingress.

I am not sure if your tires are a good choice for MTB.

his cable exits the right way.
If you magnify the picture, you'll see the cutout on the axle is toward the ground.

 

[Woosh]

I did had a bit time and bought myself a Carbon-Fiber MTB frame for 148mm thru-axle because I ordered a motor for this purpose but unfortunaely the motormanufacturer is still not ready with this new developed 2,4kg motor which has 50nm of torque. Fortunately the frame was send with drop-out for 148mm thru axle and for standard-motoraxle 10/12 mm and since the shengyi-x2 is anyways more 140mm wide as 135mm I was able to plug it with some washer into the frame. This Motor has a cassette integrated torque-sensor from Kclamber inside for SRAM-Cassette
I installed our new Lishui (LD-89) controller withroundabout the size of a common 6-fet controller but able to take 14s battery and able to push max current of 40amps I use only max 16amps which give a 800watt on my wattmeter

I did not know that Shengyi has now your torque sensor in one of their motors. That's good news. Aikema only do the 85SX with your torque sensor, they call it 85TS, 30NM-35NM. I have one of the Aikema 85TS with your sensor and love it. Your torque sensor seems to be more responsive than their original Tongsheng torque sensor on their TSDZ2B.

 

[guerney]

This Motor has a cassette integrated torque-sensor from Kclamber inside for SRAM-Cassette

Very interesting.

Cassette Torque Sensor TORG4B-C_Kclamber Electric Technology Corp

Cassette Torque Sensor TORG4B-C-Kclamber Electric Technology Corp-●Rated voltage: 5V<br /> ●Communication protocols:UART/CAN<br /> ●Output voltage (DCV): 0.7~4.8V <br /> ●ZTV Initial voltage: 0.7±0.05V <br />

en.kclamberele.com

If you can use this to drive a BBS01B via the throttle cable, you could sell retrofit torque sensor kits for the BBSXXX series? If you get it working, it won't do me any good of course because my bike has 130mm dropouts. Plus I don't want a torque sensor, but many seem to.

 

[mechaniker]

@flecc
thank you.

@Az.
Cable out is correct. Tyre is correct since they must be silent because when I present for "Lishui" our controller inside my bike at various bike-manufacturer and productmanager all over europe it doesn´t make any sense to use mtb tyre since they are so noisy that you can´t hear the sound of the motor. The sound is for bike-manufacturer´s a very important aspect. Personaly I like the handling of MTB but I hate noisy tire´s and I never saw any sense for me riding through the mud..... I´m out of that age where this was cool

@Woosh
I convert the shengy-x2 myself for the Kclamber sensor (Shimano or Sram doesn´t matter) since I have cnc-milling and drilling machine it´s not a big deal. Shengyi said on eurobike that they want produce the after eurobike but I did not follow it up because I have enough of them for my privat use

Yeab, you can buy the Aiklema which is also in my opinion a nice motor but to weak for most people if they live in a little more hilly- terrain. Everywhere I go the bike-manufactuerer tell me "clients like this small aikema and they say nobody need more but when it comes to spend money out of their own wallet things change and the same people buy a 3-35kg motor because more torque"
The response of the Torque-sensor inside the cassette is nice , since Kclamber cassette torque-sensor I totaly gave up on bb-torquesensor

I will get soon a thru-axle 148mm just 2,4kg and 50nm torque, that will be an interesting motor because of weight and power are just right. I testet after eurobike two different 142mm thru axle but both was a nightmare, they gave up after 150km with my weight

@guerney A bike without torque-sensor or even worse, with a throttle is for me personally unimaginable to ride with fun. I do it just for the job since I need to testride so many different bike´s per year
I have every different Kclamber sensors in two suitcase at my german office in case I get an Idea .... ;-)

 

[saneagle]

his cable exits the right way.
If you magnify the picture, you'll see the cutout on the axle is toward the ground.

The axle might be the right way up, but with cable like that water will go in. The cable MUST go downwards from the axle, not horizontal. I would bring it from under the chainstay, not over it.

 

[Az.]

Cable out is correct. Tyre is correct since they must be silent because when I present for "Lishui" our controller inside my bike at various bike-manufacturer and productmanager all over europe it doesn´t make any sense to use mtb tyre since they are so noisy that you can´t hear the sound of the motor. The sound is for bike-manufacturer´s a very important aspect. Personaly I like the handling of MTB but I hate noisy tire´s and I never saw any sense for me riding through the mud..... I´m out of that age where this was cool

I am confused... what are you trying to achieve? MTB without proper tires is not an MTB.
Battery should not rattle on downtube. Additional bracket will only prolong agony.

Is your bike made only for the purpose of presentation in the office?

 

[mechaniker]

@Az.

... what are you trying to achieve?

very simple, selling our "Lishui" ebike controller or our ebike-systems to the bike-manufacturer in europe.
Lishui is one of the biggest manufacturer for ebike-controller in the world and used in many bike-brands

Why use MTB frame but street-tire? MTB-Geometry give´s a totaly different bike-handling as a trekkingbike or a citybike and I need to come close as possible to the prefered handing of the bike manufacturer/product-manager. I can adjust the software of the controller to the bikemanufacturer preference.
I´m nearly for 20-years in ebike-busines and Bikemanufacturer want know about the capability of the controller or system-setup, they don´t go on a trail because it would be useless to them....on a trail they go with their own prodced bikes. What could you possibly check if the the tire or the dirt-road covered with small stones makes more noise as a church-bell? you need a silent ground and tire to hear what customer would maybe complain about. And you need a steep ramp on a mountain that you can ride untill the bike goes in overheat-protection. Bikemanufacturer check for climbing-ability, motor/controller-noise and heat-issues and so on. I´m a perfect challenge for every ebike-system and can bring every controller and motor easy onto the brink of giving up with my 140kg....

For myself I use depending on my mood sometime MTB because of the agressive handling which give some fun when riding thru narrow roads but most of the time I ride my trekking-bike or my city-bike because they have fender, kickstand, shopping basket and can be used for shopping

For myself I only use the more expensive controller and motors because it makes a big difference in quality of the system and in quality of the ride-experience. Many people like or need everything simple and cheap, why not? but just good enough to get from point "a" to point "b" it isn´t my liking when it comes to bicycle. On a car I don´t care as long it takes me reliable with 100-120kph to where ever I want, any car is good

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Is there anywhere we can buy motors with your torque sensor in kit form (preferably including wheel) ? I was thinking if you had a battery cradle including the controller then potentially it is a very neat solution with the minimum of wiring and to my mind you don't need a brake sensor and throttle with a torque sensor

Is your controller pas levels speed controlled or current controlled ?

 

[Az.]

Thank you for taking your time and trying to explain why you did it this way. It only proves carbon frames are not suitable for conversions. Can you elaborate why battery is so poorly attached to the downtube? Is it something that can be improved or is it a lost fight?

Accidentally I have an MTB with Lishui controller and front hub motor. It is very loud(comparing to my other e-bikes). Lets say that sound of rolling MTB tires is the last thing you should worry about.

Your new controller is quite interesting

Lishui Controller LD-LS89

Nanjing Lishui Electronics Research Institute Co., Ltd

www.lsdzs.com

Can we buy it somewhere at reasonable price or is it OEM only? Can we configure it or is it locked? Power or speed control?

 

[mechaniker]

@Peter.Bridge
sadly I never noticed a shop for such a kit.
If I would be younger, I would open a shop just selling such kit but It´s to late for me because I did already crossed the 60 and planing for my retirement
Controller-setting depends on what you order, naturally torque-controlled is usually controll the current, I did setup my controller this way: step-1 you get 50-250w depending on how hard you push the pedal and it goes up to 50-800w in step-5 depending on how hard you push the pedal and on how fast you spin the pedal and some other parameter. But remember, I can setup the way I like but for sure not the consumer. Consumer depend on the seller, Problem is many just want earn money with no effort in doing a good job and of course there is always different opinion on what is a good setup...Some people like speed-step, I really have no idea how somebody could possibly like speed step but the they say opposite

Very Important, Kclamber Cassette-Torquesensor require a special controller with a u-art or can-bus communication between controller and the sensor. For my requirement I needed at least half year of adjustement before I said "now I´m satisfied"

@Az.
Of course most carbon-frame is usually not made for a 4,2kg Battery (incl. slider) plus a 3kg motor. It is usually made for a 500gr waterbottle. I knew it upfront but I wanted a carbon-fiber frame so I knew that I need to think most likely of a solution for the battery. If the manufacturer would design the frame from the get-go for ebike conversion there is no problem.

Accidentally I have an MTB with Lishui controller and front hub motor. It is very loud(comparing to my other e-bikes). Lets say that sound of rolling MTB tires is the last thing you should worry about.

You shoudn´t generalize because I´m very sensitive to noise so I use on my bike noiseless motor and a noiseless controller, such things depend on what you want achive for what amount of money. Lishui produce nearly 10.000 different controller in software and hardware (no joke) and your MTB with frontmotor sound like lowest price-range I assume, you got what you payed for.
I´m very sensitive to noise so for example a "Bosch-Motor-CX" is nothing I would ever buy and not even use when somebody give it to me for free as a gift, I would just scrap it
When I make a ride in nature I don´t want to hear anything but the nature and not the sound of a coffee-mill inside my bike so all my personal bikes are very silent/noiseless even in compare to well known silent motors from german or japanese brands


I don´t know a shop who sell LD-89 Controller and specialy for kclamber I doubt there is one.
I´m very happy that I just need to say my colleague "I want this controller to test" and I get one.
Ususally controller is locked at the bike-manufacturer. Some Bike-manufacturer allow parameter change by the display. If I would be a bike-manufacturer I wouldn´t allow parameter change for speed and amps

 

[Az.]

your MTB with frontmotor sound like lowest price-range I assume, you got what you payed for.

It was extremely expensive for what it is in my opinion. Bought it from Yose. Luckily prices of electrical components went down recently.

I like silence as well, but controllers we can't buy are no good for us.
I guess we will keep buying from KT.