Canyon BT002 900Wh E-Bike Battery rip off

soundwave

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£1,144.95 5.86 kg :eek:

 
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guerney

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soundwave

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and peter will not service any! shimano motors as the software bricked all the ones he fixed so after 2 years and no warranty your fooked.

and you can only buy the motors from shimano dealers a e8000 motor is £900 so the ep8 will cost even more imo.

if a wear part like motor bearings cant be serviced it is not fit for purpose and thats why the warranty is only 2 years on a 10k bike id doubt it whould change if it cost 100k and 1 year warranty from apple :rolleyes:
 

guerney

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and peter will not service any! shimano motors as the software bricked all the ones he fixed so after 2 years and no warranty your fooked.

and you can only buy the motors from shimano dealers a e8000 motor is £900 so the ep8 will cost even more imo.

if a wear part like motor bearings cant be serviced it is not fit for purpose and thats why the warranty is only 2 years on a 10k bike id doubt it whould change if it cost 100k and 1 year warranty from apple :rolleyes:
I'd rather buy the Welsh barn for 5k. where I could crank up the volume on a massive sound system bought with the change - sheep are illiterate and can't write nasty letters to the authorities.
 
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soundwave

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guerney

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:p
Proper monitors! :p By the way SW, these replacement Sennheiser HD600 cables are still working a year later, which must be some sort of record. Much better than Sennheiser's own! And they've sold off their spare parts business, which is a worry - we might not be able to get some parts such as the driver capsules in future :eek: My carbon fibre headband might need replacing soon, and they're out of stock :(


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Andy-Mat

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and peter will not service any! shimano motors as the software bricked all the ones he fixed so after 2 years and no warranty your fooked.

and you can only buy the motors from shimano dealers a e8000 motor is £900 so the ep8 will cost even more imo.

if a wear part like motor bearings cant be serviced it is not fit for purpose and thats why the warranty is only 2 years on a 10k bike id doubt it whould change if it cost 100k and 1 year warranty from apple :rolleyes:
You might even be talking about Bosch products in the same breath.......and probably some others too....

Appalling (is the only printable word that I can think of), for a motor that costs almost the same as my bike did new, including import and transport costs, all extras except a GPS Tracker, and a second battery!!

A cheap but well made Chinese "standard" bike.

My bike is now in its 5th year, and once the initial delivery problems were fixed by the company, since then only one caliper needed replacement due to the plastic adjuster suffering with UV light (I actually fixed it myself and its been back on the bike for some years now), and I needed the loan of a battery recovery charger to get the battery up and accepting a charge, as it was delivered with (3 months travelling around Europe with a s**t delivery company, apparently), only disk pads, tyres and tubes have been needed since then....

No CANBUS needed, and any parts I need can be bought on ebay for very little money, if and when......

Now that is quality!

regards
Andy
 

georgehenry

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Defeat technology and no ability to get either the bike shop where you bought your bike or spar parts yourself to mend motors or batteries is a disgrace.

However there is a real opportunity for one of these manufacturers to break cover and do the job properly.

Design a mid motor that can be fixed (actually remove the defeat technology and provide spar parts and the existing ones could be) and back that up with a service centre in the country you are selling them for your dealers to send motors or batteries to be fixed where possible, and make spar parts available for both dealers and owners/third parties to buy, with a guarantee that they will be available for 10 years.

I have been very impressed by the Yamaha system on my 2015 Haibike. Yamaha have an existing dealer network for their motorcycles with highly qualified mechanics and parts back up.

How hard can it be.

And it is a real sales opportunity. If you knew a particular crank drive system had such back up, you would want to buy a bike with that system rather than a bike with another.
 

soundwave

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yamaha motors are the most fixable out of warranty as dont use can bus coms so peter can get the controllers and some of the metal gears but giant also use the Yamaha motors but use can bus on there bikes so those controllers wont work on giant bikes.

there is also a batt hack so you can recell the packs with any bms but out of stock atm.

 
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guerney

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"Right To Repair" demand may well be picking up pace - I hope to see laws compelling manufacturers such as Bosch to design user-repairable ebikes and batteries in future, as well as providing resources and support for owners to repair their existing bikes.

 

soundwave

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get this about 2 weeks ago i had to go to a bosch dealer as fitted a new kiox display so could see the batt in percent than 5 bars and once fitted showed a dealer update needed but the motor had the latest software installed but it wanted something and it also went in to emtb mode changing the displays.

today i went to put my old 400w batt on the bike and the fkn dealer update is back again but when i swap batts it is gone so bosch are now putting a full can bus chip in the new displays and wants pairing via the bosch software like fitting a fkn car part at the factory that can only be fitted buy a authorized dealer with the software to do it.

so if i go get a new batt it will fkn do it again so forcing me to buy bosch batts from dealers only and if bought 2nd hand could be locked out in the future but bike works fine its just fkn annoying atm.

ill also get them to change the service date as if not will get a dealer update required even if there are no new updates to 3090 :p
 

soundwave

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Bonzo Banana

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Are the open standard mid-drive motors that much worse that provide easy access to spares and compatibility with any battery? I just don't see the point in buying these high end garbage ebikes when there are much cheaper, more reliable and easier to fix options.

It's not just bad for your pocket its bad for the UK economy as a whole and adds to our trade deficit and huge borrowing. I know I can be like a stuck record but £83 billion is being paid in interest by the government each year that is about £3k for every working person in this country. The international banks that lend our economy money will lose confidence in the UK economy at some point and the sh*t is really going to hit the fan when the real state of the UK economy is revealed. You can't borrow forever.

The German economy seems to make a lot of unreliable products that are marketed as reliable but infact are very poor and have excessive repair costs. There are many Japanese cars 3x as reliable as German cars and significantly cheaper repair bills too. There are some brands that are still more reliable than German cars but have massively cheaper repair bills. If a car is 3x as likely to go wrong and the bills are 3x as much that is close to 10x the costs. It feels like the until the UK hits rock bottom we aren't going to come to our senses.

Canyon has its CF frames made by Quest Composites in mainland China. It's a very poor facility with poor QC. Here is a picture of the actual factory as shown on the Quest Composites site. The workers are sitting on small tables and the woman in the foreground is not wearing the hat properly to prevent dust and hairs getting into the fibres and resin of the frame. People need a reality check. Canyon is just another brand who do some design work but is ultimately made for them by just another cheap Asian factory and in this case not a very good one.

They also make many Trek bikes and they have been shown to have very poor tolerances especially for the bottom bracket where on a few occasions Hambini has had to make custom bottom brackets to allow for the extremely poor manufacturing quality. You will see plenty of Canyon and Trek bike images all over the Quest Composite site.

Just making the point that these aren't high quality products. They are not durable or reliable and have quite a high failure rate and some shockingly poor tolerances. Not what you expect you when you spend £3k or more on a bicycle.


46485
 

georgehenry

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Thanks soundwave, it looks like my Yamaha battery and motor is more easily refurbished/re-celled/mended than the others. I knew about Peter but was unaware of the battery dongle man.
 

guerney

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That battery costs a couple of £hundred more than my entire bike and conversion kit which includes a relatively inexpensive, replaceable and repairable 691Wh LG-MH1 cell battery. I'd choose my bike over the Canyon. A fool and his money are easily parted...
 
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richtea99

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Are the open standard mid-drive motors that much worse that provide easy access to spares and compatibility with any battery? I just don't see the point in buying these high end garbage ebikes when there are much cheaper, more reliable and easier to fix options.
etc...
This is a confusing post. You're suggesting:
1. buy British to decrease national debt
2. Canyon (and other 'closed' systems) are overpriced
3. Canyon's raw supplier has poor factory control
4. therefore we should buy cheaper 'open' components

In summary, buy using these criteria:
- British components
- well made
- in good factory conditions
- 'open' systems design
- cheaper

That's just a more complex version of:
"British, high quality, cheap - pick any two."

As an aside, whilst the Japanese make very reliable vehicles, their debt (as a percentage of GDP) is more than double ours:
4th graph down.

Why not consider other measures of how successful a country is:

And some recent figures (slide to just 2017 and select table heading to sort):
 
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guerney

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I wouldn't buy a carbon-fibre framed bike, because they're not widely or easily recycled. A much higher proportion of carbon-fibre frames are rejected as defective at factories making them, than if they had been made using steel or aluminium alloys. Defective carbon-fibre frames end up in landfills.


Carbon-fibre never breaks down naturally in the environment - do we really want to live in a world littered with repurposed parts of large structures made using it, and similar composite materials? A weird looking and not all that fit for purpose garden trellis, is the best one can hope for when repurposing defective or damaged carbon-fibre bike frames.


...and in some cases, it would be far cheaper to simply buy use of an established off-the-shelf architectural design, than to design from scratch, and commissioning analysis by structural engineers of something incorporating like say, a few thousand carbon-fibre bike frames reinforcing some other material to make walls for a house or public structure. Then there is the issue of VOC outgassing of the resins used.

 
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soundwave

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my m8 has that same bike and i fkn told him not to buy it :rolleyes: