Can a pedelec be a mobility scooter?

[Ferdinand]

Another dippy tangential question or two, that have spun off some reflections about Access.

Does a pedelec ridden at less than 4mph (*) under throttle only in a speed-limited mode on the pavement count as a pedestrian?

Why or why not?

That question is a can of worms, but it turns on whether a pedelec can qualify as a mobility scooter, which are legally defined as pedestrians. All sorts of bits of law and practice could come in, one of which is whether pedelecs have a limited speed 4mph mode.

These walkalong modes are - I believe - the only throttle only thing explicitly allowed under EU law, but do pedelecs here have them?

Potential new market as light but strong scooters?

If you want more background on this I have a huge thread on CTC about "Anti-Cycling Gates", where I am looking at the issues around using access laws to get those "squeeze" A-Gates removed from my local cycling/walking infrastructure. Reading the first few and last few pages will be enough for a gist.

Ferdinand

Yes - I know about the difficulty of riding at 4mph, but it can be done. I can do not 5 , not 4, but 'free' as the dragon in the snack advert used to say. But it could be a trike or quad pedelec.

Cycling in the East Midlands.
Personal Blog: http://www.ashfieldcycling.wordpress.com

 

[flecc]

The law in the UK allows 4 mph on footpaths for pedestrian controlled vehicles and disability vehicles. The latter have an 8 mph speed limit on roads.

EU law allowance for the same vehicles is 6kph, which is 3.6 mph, and e-bike walk alongside throttles are usually designed to that. So from a practical point of view your riding speed would probably be impractically slow for consistency.

I don't know what the law says on disability scooters but I doubt a pedelec could qualify as one. Firstly because it doesn't have either an overall 4 mph limitation or dual 4/8 mph limitation modes, secondly because it clearly isn't self stable on two wheels so probably couldn't be classified as fundamentally safe. An example of a two wheel ban is the Segway and similar, all banned on UK footpaths.
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[selrahc1992]

The law in the UK allows 4 mph on footpaths for pedestrian controlled vehicles and disability vehicles. The latter have an 8 mph speed limit on roads.

EU law allowance for the same vehicles is 6kph, which is 3.6 mph, and e-bike walk alongside throttles are usually designed to that. So from a practical point of view your riding speed would probably be impractically slow for consistency.

I don't know what the law says on disability scooters but I doubt a pedelec could qualify as one. Firstly because it doesn't have either an overall 4 mph limitation or dual 4/8 mph limitation modes, secondly because it clearly isn't self stable on two wheels so probably couldn't be classified as fundamentally safe. An example of a two wheel ban is the Segway and similar, all banned on UK footpaths.
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could I ask a related question (sincerely don't mean to derail this thread): is my 3kw 17.8mph restricted raleigh twenty BPM Lipo DIY pedelec a pedelec? I don't (at all) mean to get into the legal jungle covered in previous posts - what I mean is if our friendly local community police officer stops me, will he be happy with it?

 

[Nealh]

Legal EAPC is 250w only, 3kw NO.

 

[flecc]

could I ask a related question (sincerely don't mean to derail this thread): is my 3kw 17.8mph restricted raleigh twenty BPM Lipo DIY pedelec a pedelec? I don't (at all) mean to get into the legal jungle covered in previous posts - what I mean is if our friendly local community police officer stops me, will he be happy with it?

Assuming the high power isn't blatantly obvious and if you can tell him or show him the power stops when pedalling stops, it's likely he'll question no further.

If it's throttle controlled and he happens to be unusually conversant with the latest law, you may be obliged to point out that your e-bike creation predates 6th April 2015 and therefore has Grandfather Rights according to the DfT, since the amendments to the EAPC law were not back dated.

In practice the only police officer likely to give any problems will be a traffic officer, since they specialise in all vehicle and roads law and will have had the latest EAPC changes drawn to their attention.
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[selrahc1992]

Assuming the high power isn't blatantly obvious and if you can tell him or show him the power stops when pedalling stops, it's likely he'll question no further.

If it's throttle controlled and he happens to be unusually conversant with the latest law, you may be obliged to point out that your e-bike creation predates 6th April 2015 and therefore has Grandfather Rights according to the DfT, since the amendments to the EAPC law were not back dated.

In practice the only police officer likely to give any problems will be a traffic officer, since they specialise in all vehicle and roads law and will have had the latest EAPC changes drawn to their attention.
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many thanks, very helpful, the power isn't for outrageous behaviour, just for squirting away quickly ahead of traffic, and it's all very low key installation

 

[flecc]

many thanks, very helpful, the power isn't for outrageous behaviour, just for squirting away quickly ahead of traffic, and it's all very low key installation

I appreciate that, the power is only high in our eyes anyway. Traffic officers conversant with 100+ bhp motorbikes and 200+ bhp cars are unlikely to flinch if checking your 4 bhp pedelec. It's barely into moped territory.
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[selrahc1992]

I appreciate that, the power is only high in our eyes anyway. Traffic officers conversant with 100+ bhp motorbikes and 200+ bhp cars are unlikely to flinch if checking your 4 bhp pedelec. It's barely into moped territory.
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and there I was feeling like the king of the road on my DIY dragster )

 

[selrahc1992]

and there I was feeling like the king of the road on my DIY dragster )

and there I was feeling like the king of the road on my DIY dragster )

that was meant to be a smiling face..!

 

[flecc]

that was meant to be a smiling face..!

Don't worry, I saw the joke!

Your comment made me think of Howard and his scooter, what he termed his Hog in "The Big Bang Theory".
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[anotherkiwi]

Walk along mode won't carry a rider - at least with my kit (ok maybe on the flat, haven't tried yet). I am wondering if it will even pull my trailer, that is where it is really useful.

 

[Wicky]

I did try it on with a police woman in my town centre when sneakily riding through a pedestrian area, as I have intermittent claudication which makes it difficult to walk after a few minutes. Not helped by otherwise looking fit & healthy and she almost arrested me when I threatened to drop my trousers to show her my fem pop scars!

 

[Ferdinand]

In practice the only police officer likely to give any problems will be a traffic officer, since they specialise in all vehicle and roads law and will have had the latest EAPC changes drawn to their attention.
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Or a Plod on a Pedelec

 

[flecc]

Or a Plod on a Pedelec

True, but fortunately there's not too many areas with them them.
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[mike killay]

In practice, unless a motor has something like 3,000 watt written on it, or you are going inordinately fast, I don't suppose the Police will do anything about it.
To successfully prosecute such a case would mean seizing the bike and sending it off to the Forensic science laboratory for tests