Buying used e-bikes

[hyperknot]

Hi,

I'm looking to buy our fist e-bike / pedelec, I'm looking for a model which my 60 year old mother could use to commute to work (2x6 km, 60 meter elevation).

She doesn't want to spend too much money on it I'm looking for something up to 900-1000 EUR. My question is whether I should look for second hand "lightly used" bikes with higher specs or base/budget model brand new ones.

For example I could buy a cca. 2015 Kalkhoff bike with Panasonic 26V mid engine system and Nexus 8 speed hub which only had under 1000 km / 8 charges in total.
Alternatively I could buy a new bike from a local brand (made in my country), with very basic specs, or something from Decathlon for the same money. Front hub MXUS XF06 engine, Shimano Tourney TZ50 rear derailleur, battery on the rack, so everything super basic. I don't like any of these specs, but since its a local brand there'll probably be replacements for a long time and probably loads of local knowledge in the coming years.

Basically for non-electric bikes, I always bought second hand as fixing bikes with new parts was always easy, but with e-bikes I'm worried as I have no idea what'll happen if something breaks in the electric system. On the other hand I heard that Panasonic systems are very reliable.

Which way would you recommend me?

 

[Nealh]

The all and important part is the battery so a new bike gives you some insurance with warranty.
What type of bike style ?
For mum a step thru frame ?

 

[hyperknot]

Yes, a step-through frame, like the bikes popular in the Neatherlands is what she'd prefer.

I've been reading and it seems to me that the most reliable / easy to maintain solution for her would be one with a hub motor. So maybe I should buy a cheaper new bike and just replace the very cheap non-electronic parts, like breaks and maybe rear derailleur.

 

[vfr400]

Yes, a step-through frame, like the bikes popular in the Neatherlands is what she'd prefer.

I've been reading and it seems to me that the most reliable / easy to maintain solution for her would be one with a hub motor. So maybe I should buy a cheaper new bike and just replace the very cheap non-electronic parts, like breaks and maybe rear derailleur.

On cheap bikes, the brakes are always a weak point. The gears always work OK, as does everything else.

 

[Benjahmin]

I would agree that hub motor is more reliable. No mysterious algorythms getting in the way, simple pas activation. Mid drive is a more 'technical' ride as gear changing has to be managed to suit the motor's requirements. On a basic hub motor'd bike all the electrics will be generic and user replaceable. On Panasonic and Bosch systems you are tied into their parts and servicing, all very expensive.
The secondhand bike you mention may have only had 8 charges, but how has it been kept, over how long? Keeping a Li-ion battery fully charged for long periods can be detrimental.
If you're OK with cycle mechanics/maintenance then there is nothing to fear, with help here, you will learn as you go along.

 

[sjpt]

Keeping a Li-ion battery fully charged for long periods can be detrimental.

An keeping it empty can be even worse.

 

[mike killay]

In these circumstances (giving the bike to a person who probably has little idea of electrical things) I would go for a low price hub motor because they tend to be more reliable
Hub motors are simple things, easily replaced/repaired cheaply.
You only mention a 60 meter rise in 6Km. Is this a gentle slope or a short steep hill?

Your only worry with a new low cost bike would be the battery, and batteries make a large part of the cost of a bike.
As mentioned above, poor brakes are easily replaced if necessary.

 

[Michael Price]

As mentioned above - the battery is the biggest problem. You need to know how it has been stored, how it has been used and how it has been charged
the bad things to look out for are
a) stored for long periods with no use or charge
b) been through many charge cycles
c) been charged at low temperature - e.g. outdoors in winter

but even if you ask - how can you be sure they are telling the truth??

but then I bought a used Powacycle many many years ago and it lasted for ages - I got a new battery after a while - but when I sold it last year both batteries worked fine
SO basically you could get lucky - but factor in the possibility that you may need to get a new battery in a short while.
If you do - try getting the old one recelled - it is cheaper and you can specify better cells which should last longer and have higher capacity

 

[Tarka]

If buying a pre-used one make sure you get the battery charger and keys. Lots of stolen bikes about which don't usually have them.

 

[Nealh]

The only time a used ebike makes sense is if you can get it really cheap.
Like Georgehenry with his cyclamatic #2, £100 a few years ago and it is still going strong.

 

[Michael Price]

The only time a used ebike makes sense is if you can get it really cheap.
Like Georgehenry with his cyclamatic #2, £100 a few years ago and it is still going strong.

yup - I got my Powacycle Salisbury for £220 and it lasted 11 years before I sold it - still going well!!

So it can be done - but risky

 

[Andy-Mat]

Yes, a step-through frame, like the bikes popular in the Neatherlands is what she'd prefer.

I've been reading and it seems to me that the most reliable / easy to maintain solution for her would be one with a hub motor. So maybe I should buy a cheaper new bike and just replace the very cheap non-electronic parts, like breaks and maybe rear derailleur.

Good move.
Also the parts of hub bikes, ones that will work with the rest of the bike, are easier to source and generally cheaper to buy.
Some complete bikes are under 1000 UK Pounds new....
Regards
Andy

 

[hyperknot]

Thanks for the good points, I'm definitely not considering second hand pedelecs any more, since the ones I was looking at were the same price as new low-end ones, say 800 EUR.

I'm now leaning towards buying a low-end one and just swapping the too-cheap parts immediately, like V-breaks and probably rims in the first few months.

My question is which one of the following you'd buy (both cost around 800 EUR):
- Decathlon Elops 120E: 36V/313 Wh rear-hub unspecified motor/battery/controller, 2 years warranty, original battery: 300 GBP
- Neuzer (my local brand): MXUS XF06 front-hub motor, MXUS LED890, MXUS 36V, 11AH battery, 1 year warranty.

I think the bikes are quite similar, my question is about which will have better support later on? Is the MXUS system reliable and easy to find replacement parts later on or can it take generic batteries, etc?
Does anyone have experience with the low-end Decathlon bikes here?

 

[flecc]

For example I could buy a cca. 2015 Kalkhoff bike with Panasonic 26V mid engine system and Nexus 8 speed hub which only had under 1000 km / 8 charges in total.

in its day this Panasonic motor was excellent, but that day was very long ago, so for the following reasons don't touch this one unless it's at a giveaway price:

The 2015 is false, by the end of 2011 four years after the Panasonic motored one was introduced, the Kalkhoffs were being equipped with the Daum Impulse motor instead.

The battery at that age will probably be about to fail due solely to age. There's only unofficial replacements at increasing prices.

Panasonic never made any spares or released any technical information for these motor units, they were only repair by whole unit replacement at £500 plus labour several years ago.

By today's standards they are weak performers.
.

 

[Nealh]

Both the elops and mxus will use a simple 3 speed pas low med and high, the controllers will be speed control so you will get max current in each level with varying speeds up to the cut off. High will be 25km/h , med about 20 km/h and low about 15km/h. Both will use a generic battery so replacement won't be complicated.
The electronics are pretty simple and one could easily in the future spend up to £100 to convert them to use current control with better control systems.

 

[hyperknot]

Do you mean that this proprietary looking battery can be replaced with a generic one in the future?

 

[nigelbb]

The only time a used ebike makes sense is if you can get it really cheap.
Like Georgehenry with his cyclamatic #2, £100 a few years ago and it is still going strong.

We have now bought three used Woosh bikes at 30-40% the price of a new one. A Petite at £450 for the wife & a Sundowner at £500 & a Big Bear at £345 for me. All in exceedingly good condition & very low mileage (just 26 miles on the Big Bear) & despite being up to six years old none of the batteries have yet needed replacing.

 

[Nealh]

Good buy'S Nigel, you have done well. You have bought a recognised well known brand ( by us on the forum), to us they aren't a no name rubbish bike with crap batteries.

Used can still be a lottery if it does go pear shaped after a year or less then one is left with approx. a £300 bill for a good replacement battery.

When buying a used bike one needs to take it for a proper test ride up a nice hill using full power. at full power any battery issue or weak cells will show it self by cutting out. Equally one can produce a static test by powering the bike in top assist mode with the drive wheel off the ground and at the same time use the brake to induce a heavy load, a good battery won't cut out.

 

[Nealh]

Do you mean that this proprietary looking battery can be replaced with a generic one in the future?

Yes, likely. Low end bikes very rarely have any complicated electronics because of the price point.
A pic of the discharge connector to the bike controller would be useful to confirm.

The charge input is XLR 4 pin but any input can be used as most batteries will come with a new charger. The discharge is only two prongs so V+ & V-. Similar cased batteries can be found online or if one wanted particular cells inside a re-cell would be another option.

 

[hyperknot]

An new model people recommended me from Neuzer has a frame battery and a Sturmey-Archer 3-Speed Hub.

As I read Sturmey-Archer 3-Speed Hubs are generally considered very reliable, even more than Nexus 8, so that's a good sign, but how concerned I should be about frame batteries? This is an other super-low price model (710 EUR), hopefully the electronic system is simple, but I have no idea. Specs say motor is: KKM100SX, does this mean anything at all? This is how it looks:

Or is the MXUS model with generic battery a much more future-proof buy?