Building Ebike batteries for a bike shop - Questions regarding liability, insurance, etc.

[vulcanears]

Hey guys.

Over the last year, I've done 10+ ebike conversions and built the batteries myself every time, so I have a small bit of experience.
I recently met the owner of a bike shop and he is impressed by the value for money of my ebike-conversions and asked me if I would be willing to do conversions for his customers as a self-employed contractor.

It's really difficult to find ebike batteries with decent cells, bluetooth BMS, decent battery-case (I don't like the old Hailong cases, because the whole battery weight is held by 4 little tabs) at a resonable price, so I might as well build them myself. (Got a lot of time on my hands at the moment)

I haven't decided yet, whether or not I want to do it, because I'm concerned about the liablity consequences. If the unlikely case happens and one of the batteries catches fire in a customer's home, I don't want my life financially ruined.

Do you have any tips or advice on how to approach this?
Would setting up a limited company be enough to manage the risk and not liable with my personal savings?
Would additional product liability insurance (or others) be recommended?

Thank you very much in advance!

 

[PC2017]

I believe you would need to conform with some form of testing and safety regs, ie sending each battery to a lab for testing - this would costly.

 

[Nealh]

I doubt that ebikebatteries.co.uk have to send their battery builds to a testing lab, though no doubt their must be a credibility process (licencing) in place along the line but in which form ?
I think in the past Woosh have said that the process is to onerous for them to consider making their own.

 

[Woosh]

it's just not worth the hassle unless you make more than 1,000 batteries a month. Compare the price of an average UK assembled battery against the importation cost:
- Hailong (or another 52 cell case): £25
- BMS: £15
- 50 x 2900mAH Samsung 29E cells about £100
- carton and packing foam: £5
- charger: £12
- labour: £35
£192 + VAT
We don't have local sources, so you would have to import all the components, there is no saving on freight.
Even if you make 1000 battery a month, you can only afford to employ one person or two on the assembly line. It's just not worth the hassle.
If you produce commercially for sale, you need the safety test certificate before the couriers would accept to transport the batteries.

 

[vulcanears]

Thank you for your insight, Mr @Woosh
I'm aware of the cost of the components and they are fine with me. One big advantage of building them myself would be next-day availability instead of waiting for weeks. I'm not in the position to have dozens of batteries in a local warehouse.

I also will NOT send batteries vie mail/couriers. Only local bike customers.

Would it still need safety test certificates? Insurance? Or would setting up a limited company be enough? (So in the worst case scenario, the company would go broke, but my personal assets would stay untouched)

I'm still in the stage of figuring out whether or not this is a viable idea. I'm not intending to do anything half-legal that could ruin my life in case of a fire.

 

[vfr400]

Have you looked at the costs of setting up and running a limited company?

Being a director of a limited company might stop a customer from suing you, but it doesn't protect you from fines and prosecution.You still have to follow all regulations, especially those relating to safety of your products. In the event that a customer's battery catches fire for whatever reason, like it gets crushed in transit, they will come to you with a magnifying glass. They'll want to see risk analyses, written procedures and audit results, plus you'd need to demonstrate competency by way of qualifications, training or whatever. Everything will be fine as long as nothing goes wrong and you don't get grassed up by some jobsworth.

 

[vulcanears]

Well, unfortunately I don't have any formal qualifications in electronics or as a mechanic. All of my knowledge comes from forums, youtube and years of tinkering. I'm fairly confident that my batteries are on the same level as the batteries that I've bought in china and the UK - but proving that will be a nightmare.

Any pointers on how I would find the relevant product safety regulations? Already googled for an hour and have no idea where to look. Thank you in advance!

 

[vulcanears]

Oh, and does anyone know what happens if I buy a battery from pswpower, unitpackpower or any other chinese company, install it on a customer's bike and the battery goes up in flames over the course of the years?
How would the liability situation look like?

 

[vfr400]

Oh, and does anyone know what happens if I buy a battery from pswpower, unitpackpower or any other chinese company, install it on a customer's bike and the battery goes up in flames over the course of the years?
How would the liability situation look like?

It depends how soon it happens. When a battery catches fire, there normally isn't much to analyse, so if it happened after a few months, you could say that the guy must have damaged it in some way, but if it happened after a few days, I can imagine that the finger would point at you as the supplier, and you'd have some difficult questions to answer.

You have to remember that battery fires are extremely rare, which is actually quite strange considering what I've seen inside some of the Chinese batteries. Maybe it's really quite hard to accidentally set one alight.

 

[Nealh]

Problem I see it is that as the kit fitter any battery issue will come back to you even if you use a proprietary battery.
There are others beside Ebikebatteries who make batteries and sell them, there is a guy on ebay who offers a non & bespoke service.
One would think to start with one would need some liability insurance, 1 billion should do it.

 

[Woosh]

Oh, and does anyone know what happens if I buy a battery from pswpower, unitpackpower or any other chinese company, install it on a customer's bike and the battery goes up in flames over the course of the years?
How would the liability situation look like?

if you buy from a company inside the UK, your supplier's insurance company will deal with the litigation on your behalf.
I you buy from outside the UK, you are the importer and it's your insurers who will deal with litigation.
If you are not insured, then you will be personally liable for the damage and associated cost.

 

[TJS109]

Would you not have to CE mark the batteries ( at least till the end of the year) ? You can do this yourself i.e. self certify but this still needs in-house test results component declarations etc. together with quite a lot of paperwork

 

[BazP]

If you could show that you had done a reasonable job by having traceable equipment, PAT tester/Multimeter then you should just need Public Liability insurance. Your chosen insurance company will assess the level of risk, knowing what you are doing, and charge accordingly.

I assume that it's not just the batteries but also chargers, motors and mechanical fittings that could cause repercussions.

You also need to consider where you are doing this work because if it is from home then it could involve house insurance for business use and business rates. Also if you are transporting things then the car needs business insurance. " And what were these batteries doing in your car sir?"

Not trying to put you off as I've been self-employed now for 55 years but there are lots of little things that need considering if , as it sounds, you need piece of mind.

 

[WheezyRider]

If you could show that you had done a reasonable job by having traceable equipment, PAT tester/Multimeter then you should just need Public Liability insurance. Your chosen insurance company will assess the level of risk, knowing what you are doing, and charge accordingly.

I assume that it's not just the batteries but also chargers, motors and mechanical fittings that could cause repercussions.

You also need to consider where you are doing this work because if it is from home then it could involve house insurance for business use and business rates. Also if you are transporting things then the car needs business insurance. " And what were these batteries doing in your car sir?"

Not trying to put you off as I've been self-employed now for 55 years but there are lots of little things that need considering if , as it sounds, you need piece of mind.

It's no wonder people end up buying stuff from countries without such restrictions and things don't tend to get made here. I'm not saying the regulations etc are bad, they are there for a reason. But we just shift the risk elsewhere and still end up with kit that can be dubious.

 

[jimriley]

It's not just public liability insurance you need, it's product liability you are after IMHO, the insurer will say how you prove competence etc.