Britain's First 'Dutch-Style' Roundabout Closed 10 Days After Opening When Car Ploughed Into Beacon

https://www.ladbible.com/community/uk-britains-first-dutch-style-roundabout-closed-days-after-opening-20200811?fbclid=IwAR2VGciJ2GP8-tI4BbrOovc_i6_rzGulIaS5rBf4SOEnnANsadGg9xdtjs8

https://www.ladbible.com/community/uk-britains-first-dutch-style-roundabout-closed-days-after-opening-20200811?fbclid=IwAR2VGciJ2GP8-tI4BbrOovc_i6_rzGulIaS5rBf4SOEnnANsadGg9xdtjs8

Car driver on his way to Barnard Castle perhaps?

https://www.ladbible.com/community/uk-britains-first-dutch-style-roundabout-closed-days-after-opening-20200811?fbclid=IwAR2VGciJ2GP8-tI4BbrOovc_i6_rzGulIaS5rBf4SOEnnANsadGg9xdtjs8

Interesting, but I see problems here (Germany) with RAs, that have a normal zebra crossing (similar to where the bikes go here), when placed too close to the traffic ring, as a car gets blocked, halts for a pedestrian (slower than a bike!), and the car(s) behind simply plough into the rear of the stopped car!

Too my mind, there should be room for say about 2 cars to halt without blocking the ring.....but of course it will need more space, if that was done.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Regards

Andy

Interesting, but I see problems here (Germany) with RAs, that have a normal zebra crossing (similar to where the bikes go here), when placed too close to the traffic ring, as a car gets blocked, halts for a pedestrian (slower than a bike!), and the car(s) behind simply plough into the rear of the stopped car!

Too my mind, there should be room for say about 2 cars to halt without blocking the ring.....but of course it will need more space, if that was done.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Regards

Andy

Another reason to visit Barnard Castle then. Its bad driving by car drivers that needs controlling then.

Another reason to visit Barnard Castle then. Its bad driving by car drivers that needs controlling then.

I have to plead ignorance (I have lived longer in Germany now than anywhere else on this planet, 39 years!), what is Barnard Castle?

I only found this:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnard_Castle

Is this exactly what you were referring to? If yes, why?

Andy

I have to plead ignorance (I have lived longer in Germany now than anywhere else on this planet, 39 years!), what is Barnard Castle?

I only found this:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnard_Castle

Is this exactly what you were referring to? If yes, why?

Andy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/may/25/dominic-cummings-says-he-drove-to-barnard-castle-to-test-his-eyesight-video

It's a very lovely place and you should visit it.

Just keep a watch out for blind car drivers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/may/25/dominic-cummings-says-he-drove-to-barnard-castle-to-test-his-eyesight-video

I remember the "outing" on the news, but I did not catch the destination!

Many thanks

Andy

The Germans love our comedy, still repeating Dinner for One every Christmas

The Germans love our comedy, still repeating Dinner for One every Christmas

Not many Brits know that!

But its actually not at Christmas, its transmitted on 3rd German TV stations (regional) on New Years Eve, (evening), at various times.

Now several TV stations have produced versions in German, or even completely rewritten it, with good actors, again in German, but also with regional accents and some new material.

All are really great.

Andy

PS. Its a great show of Freddy Frinton and May Warden . Timeless comedy. See here the English language version that is still shown every year, IN ENGLISH! Here is the film:-

The original stage play was first shown in London in 1948.

This may help anyone interested in further detail and is a very accurate representation of both the original and other versions (also shown in other countries!):-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner_for_One

I bet that not many people on Pedelec remember these actors clearly!!!! Far too young!! But I do, as we had our first TV in 1950 or so.

The stage show I also remember ads, for sometime in the late 50's early 60's maybe, in London. My father drove past the theater....

regards

Andy

PS. At the end of the film is a saucy joke for 1963, when NDR (Nord Deutsche Rundfunk), made the film in Hamburg!

Edited August 15, 20205 yr by Andy-Mat

The Germans love our comedy, still repeating Dinner for One every Christmas

And the Dane's for New Year. Apparently they didn't show it on New Year and there was nearly rioting.

 

I hadn't heard of it till our Danish friends told us about it.

Here are some other versions that also get shown:-

A Fun explanation in English here:-

A version is a strong North German Dialect, part 1 of 3:-

A full version appears to be here:-

Edited August 15, 20205 yr by Andy-Mat

What a design disaster! A 5 minute video shows lorrys waiting to get onto the roundabout block cycles & pedestrians, cars leaving the roundabout have to stop with dangerously exposed back ends until there's a gap in the cyclists - just a few cycles causes gridlock on the roundabout. The long bendy-bus just doesn't fit.

 

Note the driving on the right, I suspect this is a genuine Dutch roundabout used as template for Cambridge

 

Personal experience says cyclists already have right of way over motorists in some counties in Scandinavia & Europe. Many UK drivers can't cope with the existing rules of the road, expecting them to cope with never-seen-before-in-UK systems is dangerous & crazy.

Many UK drivers can't cope with the existing rules of the road, expecting them to cope with never-seen-before-in-UK systems is dangerous & crazy.

 

Fully agree. It just about works there because 70% of them cycle and only about 20% of them drive cars regularly.

 

Here with only a small minority cycling and well over half the population driving it would cause many accidents and could paralyse our roads in some places.

.

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by flecc

Seems to me it could only work in conjunction with a 20mph limit in a town. This looks like it could be on the outskirts of a town, I don't think we'd currently see anywhere near the volume of pedestrians and cyclists on a British one - even in Cambridge.

Whenever I return from the continent in my camper van, it is immediately noticeable just how much more traffic there is on UK roads.

This style of roundabout will not work here, it will simply clog up all the traffic.

Also, I suspect that we build far more roundabouts than Europe.

For all the effort involved in building such a structure, I wonder if it would cost much more to provide pedestrian and cycle underpasses. There is one such roundabout outside Ypres where instead of an outer ring, there are underpasses, so my guess is that even in Europe the debate is still on.

I wonder if it would cost much more to provide pedestrian and cycle underpasses. There is one such roundabout outside Ypres where instead of an outer ring, there are underpasses, so my guess is that even in Europe the debate is still on.

 

Definitely true, the Dutch have excellent overpasses for biycles too and clearly haven't found which are the best solutions yet.

.

Where I live there are some under passes at roundabouts, ok in daylight but not so inviting when groups or gangs gather and a no go at night.

Definitely true, the Dutch have excellent overpasses for biycles too and clearly haven't found which are the best solutions yet.

.

The Dutch go with fitness for purpose and increase the separation of cycles from motor traffic where motor traffic speed is higher.

I honestly don't understand the kickback from cyclists with this roundabout. The safety issue is entirely around the speed of motor traffic, and infrastructure like this is designed to reduce that. What needs to change is the 'rush rush' selfish culture of people sat behind a steering wheel and observing any regular UK roundabout will confirm that. Am genuinely sorry if some find this offensive but we cyclists in the UK have nothing positive to teach the Dutch about designing public highways. And yes, reducing the aggressive nature of motorists does have to begin with changing the infrastructure, by making the infrastructure more democratic for everyone.

The Dutch go with fitness for purpose and increase the separation of cycles from motor traffic where motor traffic speed is higher.

 

While true, they are still experimenting and have yet to find definitive solutions. Despite all of their separation of bicycles from motor vehicles, they still suffer 200 cyclist deaths per year, almost double ours, though admittedly with far more cycling.

 

Astonishingly an average of 80 of those 200 annual deaths (40%) are with no other person or vehicle involved, somehow managing to kill themselves!

.

While true, they are still experimenting and have yet to find definitive solutions. Despite all of their separation of bicycles from motor vehicles, they still suffer 200 cyclist deaths per year, almost double ours, though admittedly with far more cycling.

 

Astonishingly an average of 80 of those 200 annual deaths (40%) are with no other person or vehicle involved, somehow managing to kill themselves!

.

Well yes but as you allude, 200 deaths in the context of how many of them cycle is actually a tiny percentage. The 40% of those with know one else involved may be due to medical reasons rather than an accident.

 

The numbers themselves in context are unremarkable.

 

In contrast our numbers of people who actually get around by bicycle are almost too small to be a useful comparison on almost any level.

While true, they are still experimenting and have yet to find definitive solutions.

Not true. Like all aspects of highway design they are continuously evolving, anything but experimental!

I honestly don't understand the kickback from cyclists with this roundabout. The safety issue is entirely around the speed of motor traffic, and infrastructure like this is designed to reduce that. What needs to change is the 'rush rush' selfish culture of people sat behind a steering wheel and observing any regular UK roundabout will confirm that. Am genuinely sorry if some find this offensive but we cyclists in the UK have nothing positive to teach the Dutch about designing public highways. And yes, reducing the aggressive nature of motorists does have to begin with changing the infrastructure, by making the infrastructure more democratic for everyone.

 

It's a matter of proportions Swizz. Equally the Dutch have nothing to teach us with our traffic levels which they have never experienced in their whole roads history.

 

That roundabout simply will not work here at our present proportions of cyclists, motor traffic and pedestrians. Indeed when the Dutch started their program in 1972 they didn't attempt anything like it, despite still having over 40% of their country still cycling daily and far fewer cars.

 

Yes we need to have big improvements in our infrastructure for cyclists, but they will physically they have to keep pace with the changes achieved, just as the Dutch did it.

 

The start is separation. Once that encourages more to cycle, then some more advanced measures like cycle bypasses and more restriction on motor vehicles. Then as the number cycling grows again and there's less car use, more land can be taken for sophisticated measures leading to such as this roundabout once the proportions justify it.

 

We are a democracy, so it's impossible to say to the majority motoring that we are taking away their road space and their taxation money, employing it all for the tiny minority of cyclists who mainly only cycle when it suits anyway.

 

We can do it when the numbers justify it, as London has shown now that cyclists on some commuting routes are approaching one third of the vehicles. That's led to the West-East segregated commuter route enabling West London residents to cycle right through to the City only in the company of cyclists, apart from a little patch in front of Buckingham Palace.

 

But we can't do that in much of the country where only 3% cycle, and then only some of the time.

.

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by flecc

The 40% of those with know one else involved may be due to medical reasons rather than an accident.

 

The Dutch who are far from stupid list them as accidents. I'm quite sure they know how to do post mortems.

 

In contrast our numbers of people who actually get around by bicycle are almost too small to be a useful comparison on almost any level.

 

Precisely, so no possible justification or anything like that roundabout at present.

.

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by flecc