Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Kwarteng is making himself number one popular man in the UK:

NEW. The UK devolved governments are seeking an urgent meeting with Kwasi Kwarteng to discuss immediate action to REVERSE the damaging effects of the mini-budget, highlighting its profound impact, stating it’s “a huge gamble on public finances and the health of our economy”

 
  • Like
Reactions: jonathan.agnew

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,531
3,277
And this is the other end wall of the living room
View attachment 49011
That's a very dense investment of time. Holy smokes all that must have taken ages, and there's still room if you utilise the glass to the right - and you haven't even started glueing them to the ceiling. Be careful of sunlight and LEDs (galleries and museums discovered this to their cost, when they switched from incandescent or halogen), as both can degrade colours.

I fear resale value of my home will be affected, if I enact my plan to convert a photo of a bigger room in a much nicer home to clipart, chop it up into small files and enlarge each tile to print and trace onto the wall and paint by numbers.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
That's a very dense investment of time. Holy smokes all that must have taken ages, and there's still room if you utilise the glass to the right - and you haven't even started glueing them to the ceiling. Be careful of sunlight and LEDs (galleries and museums discovered this to their cost, when they switched from incandescent or halogen), as both can degrade colours.

I fear resale value of my home will be affected, if I enact my plan to convert a photo of a bigger room in a much nicer home to clipart, chop it up into small files and enlarge each tile to print and trace onto the wall and paint by numbers.
The canvasses are only mounted on a single drawing pin, and each A3 canvas locally only costs £2 to £3. So you can take them off the drawing pin to put them against the adjacent canvases to ensure the colours and drawing match up.
This way you can start with a single canvas and build on that and when you want a change just lift the lot off the wall and do something else.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,265
30,652
It's by way of saying I think your argument (whether blaming US for Nordstream or ukraine for the invasion) owe more to intoxication than deduction.
I dont drink any alcohol or use drugs. Perhaps if you didn't use either you'd be better at reading.

Didn't you see the question mark at the end of the opening sentence of my post? It wasn't a statement, it was a challenge to Danidl saying the Ukrainians didn't think the Russians would attack so weren't ready for it.

That was ridiculous as my next three sentences and second paragraph showed. Of course they were ready, ready with western anti tank weapons that they very effectively used to topple tanks off of transporters as they entered Ukraine, blocking the roads and stopping further advance before many of the tanks could even be used.

The only blaming in my posts was that of Zelenskyy and his equally corrupt predecessors as president, both pro and anti Russian, for not avoiding war well before.
.
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
Putin does not care for the authority of the UN. He threatens everyone blocking his way with nuclear weapons.
I think we should drop one on his house.
In truth I think he's a very desperate man giving us his own rendition of comical Ali. The end game in ukraine is becoming very clear to everyone (including the would be conscripts running for the border). In a sense he has a lot in common with truss/kwarteng and their increasingly incessant insistence that they're right about their "kami kwazi" budget
 
Last edited:

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,265
30,652
In truth I think he's a very desperate man giving us his own rendition of comical Ali.
Very true, but desperate men are dangerous too.

The end game in ukraine is becoming very clear to everyone
I don't think it is completely clear since there are three possible end games:

The least likely, that in desperation Putin uses a nuclear attack on Kiev, bringing all action to a halt in the irradiated chaos that ensues.

Much more likely that NATO remains too wary to accept Ukraine and the war in the South East settles to a lower level to drag on and on, seemingly indefinitely, a repeat of all the fighting over Donbass through many years.

Most likely of all that a peace agreement is reached which includes a face saving component for Russia. Difficult but possible once Zelenskyy is persuaded to shut up with his war mongering talk.
.
 
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,265
30,652
I think all three of those options involve wishful thinking Flecc.
Not wishful thinking, I've never wished any of this and have preached peace throughout the whole of this discussion.

What you write doesnt gel with the reality on the battlefield, where the ukraine army are making rapid gains in Donetsk, kherson, areas russia "annexed"
There you go again, falling for all the propaganda. The reversals of Russian gains are being greatly exaggerated as propaganda, since in reality they are of empty areas of countryside. Easy for the Russians to capture in the first instance, equally easy for the Ukrainians to recover. When the advances of either side reach the cities they're brought to an abrupt halt. Taking areas of dug in defences is far more difficult.

Failing a peace agreement, this will drag on for a very long time.

It might even outlive this seven year thread !! :)
.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
I dont drink any alcohol or use drugs. Perhaps if you didn't use either you'd be better at reading.

Didn't you see the question mark at the end of the opening sentence of my post? It wasn't a statement, it was a challenge to Danidl saying the Ukrainians didn't think the Russians would attack so weren't ready for it.

That was ridiculous as my next three sentences and second paragraph showed. Of course they were ready, ready with western anti tank weapons that they very effectively used to topple tanks off of transporters as they entered Ukraine, blocking the roads and stopping further advance before many of the tanks could even be used.

The only blaming in my posts was that of Zelenskyy and his equally corrupt predecessors as president, both pro and anti Russian, for not avoiding war well before.
.
I respond to the challenge and say again that the Ukrainians were not expecting this attack. Yes they did have a supply of anti tank weapons, mainly of UK ( actually NI ) origin. But they did not think the Russians would attack because the weather had turned and they would not have expected it at that stage. Ironically it was the Chinese insistence on holding off until the end of the Games,which mattered.
The Russian attack would probably have succeeded had the airport been held long enough to allow the reinforcements to arrive with the heavy transport aircraft and then the tank columns could have run down from Belarus.
 
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,265
30,652
The Russian attack would probably have succeeded had the airport been held long enough to allow the reinforcements to arrive with the heavy transport aircraft and then the tank columns could have run down from Belarus.
Whether they expected it or not didn't matter. The Ukrainians were clearly ready for an attack, as both the successful defence of the airport and their attacks on Russian convoys creating transport blockades showed.

It was both Russia and the west who were surprised, neither expecting that the early Ukrainian defence would be so successful, or that Russia would crumble so quickly to their opposition in the north.
.
 
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Not wishful thinking, I've never wished any of this and have preached peace throughout the whole of this discussion.



There you go again, falling for all the propaganda. The reversals of Russian gains are being greatly exaggerated as propaganda, since in reality they are of empty areas of countryside. Easy for the Russians to capture in the first instance, equally easy for the Ukrainians to recover. When the advances of either side reach the cities they're brought to an abrupt halt. Taking areas of dug in defences is far more difficult.

Failing a peace agreement, this will drag on for a very long time.

It might even outlive this seven year thread !! :)
.
Lyman fell today
 
  • Like
Reactions: oyster

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Not wishful thinking, I've never wished any of this and have preached peace throughout the whole of this discussion.



There you go again, falling for all the propaganda. The reversals of Russian gains are being greatly exaggerated as propaganda, since in reality they are of empty areas of countryside. Easy for the Russians to capture in the first instance, equally easy for the Ukrainians to recover. When the advances of either side reach the cities they're brought to an abrupt halt. Taking areas of dug in defences is far more difficult.

Failing a peace agreement, this will drag on for a very long time.

It might even outlive this seven year thread !! :)
.
Lyman fell today
The Russians were nearly surrounded so fled the field
Taking their dug in defences was simply a case of treading carefully to avoid being tripped by piles of litter or falling down holes. :cool:
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oyster and flecc

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
Kwarteng is making himself number one popular man in the UK:

NEW. The UK devolved governments are seeking an urgent meeting with Kwasi Kwarteng to discuss immediate action to REVERSE the damaging effects of the mini-budget, highlighting its profound impact, stating it’s “a huge gamble on public finances and the health of our economy”

It's curious. Truss is trying to become the most unpopular prime minister quicker than any before
Does she have a secret deal with the bookmakers? why are we so passive? Other than responding to polls. Where's our protest (before it becomes illegal), yellow vests?
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: oyster

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
17,001
6,536
i got a plan from the past lol ;)

The Petroleum Warfare Department concentrated initially on static and mobile flame traps to defend, for example, the defiles from likely invasion beaches. It was slightly later, in July 1940, that it turned its attention to setting the sea on fire.

There was a precedent. The British had been contemplating the use of burning oil on the sea well before the war, and in May 1939, in an Admiralty experiment at Shoeburyness, 17 tons of petrol, spread over an area of 1,100 square yards, burnt for five minutes. Maurice Hankey (google is your friend) himself had long been gripped by the idea of deterring the invader by creating a vast flame barrage on the surface of the water, having been inspired by his reading of ancient Roman and Greek history. He wrote in 1940: ‘It is described in Gibbon’s “Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire” and Greek Fire, which was only an application of the same principle, was used by the Byzantine Emperors for years and years to maintain their sea power and defend Constantinople itself against their enemies.’ Hankey’s own early experiments of Dungeness and Dumpton in July 1940 were promising, but not very successful. They certainly did not match the descriptions of the Ancients.

The Royal Navy was interested in using petroleum warfare offensively, rather like the old fireships, but the practicality of transporting and then deploying many tons of oil at German ports put an end to such ambitions.

Another champion was found at the RAF in the person of Arthur Harris, a man who would subsequently command Bomber Command. He would write.

‘We should investigate the possibility of releasing quantities of petrol in the sea and setting it alight as the tows come in. It is obviously impracticable when considering the length of the coastline that we have to protect in this country. At the same time, however, the human inability to face flame being what it is, I think that there may be something in the idea and I have suggested to my own Commander-in-Chief an experiment of dropping light containers of petrol (such as the ordinary four-gallon petrol tin) in quantity to see if we can put up a concentration on the surface of the water which would present an effective barrier to small craft coming in to beach.’

Bomber Command’s more pressing engagements, particularly the plan to deploy gas from the air against any invasion meant that this initiative came to nothing.

On 24 August 1940, the biggest test yet with burning oil at sea was conducted on the northern shore of the Solent estuary near Titchfield, in front of a large gathering of spectators and experts. Ten Scammel petrol tankers gathered at the top of a cliff 30 feet high and then 160-foot-long pipes from each of them were taken down into the water, well below the high-water mark. The ten valves on the tankers were turned on, immediately delivering oil into the sea at a rate of about 12 tons per hour. What happened next impressed all who saw it, according to the account by Donald Banks (again, google is your friend):

‘Admiralty flares and a system of sodium and petrol pellets were used for ignition and within a few seconds of the pumps being started a wall of flame of such intensity raged up from the sea surface that it was impossible to remain on the edge of the cliff and the sea itself began to boil.’

I suspect that this test is the subject of the film linked by Dave Hopkin.

The burning sea seemed a reality. Harold Simpson, the commanding officer of the Admiralty’s Fuel Experimental Station at Haslar, wrote that

‘with all the waggons discharging, the fire produced was definitely man and boat-stopping, being a continuous bank of smoke and flame fully 30 yards in width.’

However, conditions were ideal for this test and some doubted that such a good effect could be achieved on the more exposed coasts of East Anglia. Nonetheless, following further experiments at Studland bay in Dorset (another contender for the linked film), the use of such a defence was approved. The right mixture for the oil and petrol was perfected and different types of pipes were trialled and approved.

It was not until February 1941 that the Chiefs of Staff approved the installation of 50 miles of piping, made up of 25 miles in South-Eastern Command, 15 in Eastern and 10 in Southern. In the end, however, as the invasion threat lifted and Hitler turned his gaze eastwards, only a small fraction of the barrage was installed, most of it in east Kent.

Not only were there plans to set the sea on fire, these plans came to fruition. It was only the lifting of the invasion threat, as the Germans turned their attention to the Soviet Union, that caused the plans not to be more widely implemented.
 
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,531
3,277
truss has hired Andy's previous media advisor
Phew, for a moment I was worried there, but this should sort things
I'm surprised this didn't come up during the leadership contest - is she at it again?

 
  • Like
Reactions: oyster

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
I'm surprised this didn't come up during the leadership contest - is she at it again?

It did. But not, so far as I am aware, in debates, etc.

There were numerous comments in newspapers, online but often more subtle to comply with editorial policies.
 

Advertisers