Who do you think is running this country?
Tesco have already said that nothing is going to stop this Christmas.
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Tesco have already said that nothing is going to stop this Christmas.
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Coming up to Christmas, I'm beginning to worry we'll have variants alpha and omega - and everything in-between.
Do we know what happened to case zero of Botswana?
I read somewhere that the initial samples was taken from a patient being treated for HIV in SA.
The spread is centered in Tshwane, Gauteng province, North of Johannesburg.
It's still early days but the reaction from our government seems a bit alarmist. Stopping some direct flights: OK, put some countries on red list: OK, but use the BBC to spread fear? not OK.
It smacks of govern by fear or fascism.
The FTSE dropped 3% this morning on the news.
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Prof Francois Balloux, Professor of Computational Systems Biology and Director, UCL Genetics Institute, UCL, said:
“B.1.1529 is a new lineage that has been found in Botswana that carries an unusual constellation of mutations. Given the large number of mutations it has accumulated apparently in a single burst, it likely evolved during a chronic infection of an immunocompromised person, possibly in an untreated HIV/AIDS patient.
“It is difficult to know what to make of the carriage of both P681H and N679K. It is a combination we see only exceptionally rarely. I suspect it is generally not ‘stable’, but it might be so, in combination with other mutations/deletions.
“I would definitely expect it to be poorly recognised by neutralising antibodies relative to Alpha or Delta. It is difficult to predict how transmissible it may be at this stage.
“So far, four strains have been sequenced in a region of Sub-Saharan with reasonable surveillance in place. It may be present in other parts of Africa.
“For the time being, it should be closely monitored and analysed, but there is no reason to get overly concerned, unless it starts going up in frequency in the near future.”
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Probably out of their desperation to avoid having to impose another lockdown.
From the beginning of the pandemic they have governed by wild swings back and forth between the two extremes, seeming unable to appreciate that compromises and moderation have their value. Not least that they are historic British values.
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I reckon our government would like to divert public attention from the question 'Is he alright, our PM?'
BJ lurches from one disaster to the next, his only success was the vaccine.
Update on London's vaccination rates. I showed in a previous post that 35% of Londoners haven't had the two vaccine doses. Now more data shows that almost 29% haven't have any dose at all.
In a number of boroughs over 33% haven't had any vaccination at all, Westminster (40 per cent of over 18s), Kensington and Chelsea (39 per cent), Hammersmith and Fulham (38 per cent), Camden (37 per cent) and Hackney over 35%.
Overall 73% of London admissions to ICUs are of unvaccinated people.
However, not all ICU admissions are of Covid infections of course and London still has no greater Covid death rate than the rest of the country where far more are vaccinated. The death rate is actually a lot lower in London.
I know the facts are often unpopular in here when they don't fit the official view, but that isn't any reason to suppress them.
Updated as of 1 hour ago Londons total of all Covid deaths is 16275. That is 0.173% of the 9.4 million 2021 population.
The UK's not fully up to date 144,000 Covid deaths is 0.215% of the 67 million population.
Ergo London has 19.5% less deaths with 35% less vaccines applied.
I've told you the reason, it's our London far higher degree of natural immunity from our massive early infection rate in early 2020.
Whether you accept that reason or not I don't care. You can't deny the official numbers. Immunity from prior infection works and works very well against all variants to date, without creating more deaths. Quite the opposite.
Of course the ideal is to be fully vaccinated as well as any of the effective natural immunity gained, since the combined strength of the two might even rid us of Covid altogether. That's what I've done and am continuing to do.
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In a number of boroughs over 33% haven't had any vaccination at all, Westminster (40 per cent of over 18s), Kensington and Chelsea (39 per cent), Hammersmith and Fulham (38 per cent), Camden (37 per cent) and Hackney over 35%.
Overall 73% of London admissions to ICUs are of unvaccinated people.
However, not all ICU admissions are of Covid infections of course and London still has no greater Covid death rate than the rest of the country where far more are vaccinated. The death rate is actually a lot lower in London.
I know the facts are often unpopular in here when they don't fit the official view, but that isn't any reason to suppress them.
Updated as of 1 hour ago Londons total of all Covid deaths is 16275. That is 0.173% of the 9.4 million 2021 population.
The UK's not fully up to date 144,000 Covid deaths is 0.215% of the 67 million population.
Ergo London has 19.5% less deaths with 35% less vaccines applied.
I've told you the reason, it's our London far higher degree of natural immunity from our massive early infection rate in early 2020.
Whether you accept that reason or not I don't care. You can't deny the official numbers. Immunity from prior infection works and works very well against all variants to date, without creating more deaths. Quite the opposite.
Of course the ideal is to be fully vaccinated as well as any of the effective natural immunity gained, since the combined strength of the two might even rid us of Covid altogether. That's what I've done and am continuing to do.
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I've just seen this on another forum the person posting it is reliable and not prone to making things up.
"Don't know if this is any interest to anyone on this forum, but I just talked to a relative who's a senior emergency doctor in one of Israel's top hospitals.
They've been placed this morning on what they call "emergency alert", as the new-variant cases identified there are all Israeli nationals, back from Southern Africa, who were fully vaccinated before travelling."
BTW Israel only classify people as fully vaccinated as those that have had the first two jabs and the booster jab. What is not clear (does anyone know) is are the Israeli nationals with the new variant in hospital or are they at home and don't need hospital treatment.
"Don't know if this is any interest to anyone on this forum, but I just talked to a relative who's a senior emergency doctor in one of Israel's top hospitals.
They've been placed this morning on what they call "emergency alert", as the new-variant cases identified there are all Israeli nationals, back from Southern Africa, who were fully vaccinated before travelling."
BTW Israel only classify people as fully vaccinated as those that have had the first two jabs and the booster jab. What is not clear (does anyone know) is are the Israeli nationals with the new variant in hospital or are they at home and don't need hospital treatment.
There is no such animal as" Natural "Immunity to Covid . There is only acquired immunity.
Those who have been infected by the full live virus, and have had a full immune response have acquired immunity and it may or may not be better than that achieved by other methods. The evidence for this is still very weak. However in achieving this they run the risk of death, of long Covid or any of a spectrum of chronic disorders. The rate of decay of this immunity is not known with any certainty, but there are multiple cases of persons who have contracted Covid a second time after having apparently recovered.
Those who achieve acquired immunity from an inactivated virus or an mRNA , have an immunity with extremely low side effects , and has a known decaying immune response. The evidence based on the billions of people already vaccinated is that the decay rate is such that after about 6 month post 2nd jab . , The protection against infection is 2.3 times worse than at peak protection and by about 9 to 10 months is 2.8 times worse. There is for obvious reasons ,no data relating to longer protection. This is why the health authorities are currently recommending a third jab.
The current situation is that about 50% of the global population have been at least partially vaccinated , that is 7.8 Billion doses, so the statistics on efficacy is building fast. Whereas the total number of confirmed Covid sufferers is a mere 260 million . This means that statistics for infection in vaccinated people ( breakover infection) will be more reliable than for second infections in unvaccinated people . USA statistics were claiming 0.005% probability of reinfection There is no strong evidence that those previous infected are significantly less susceptible to a second infection than those who have been vaccinated. In either case the rates are low,and the vast majority of seriously ill patients are the non vaccinated Your hospital data confirms that.
Now returning to your figures , there are 10 Million UK people who have already been infected , and are rather unlikely to be reinfected again yet. Since London was the first hit area if the UK, there will be statistically more of them per head of population. There are 65% of Londoners who are vaccinated ,and are unlikely to be infected. If you combine those factors you might explain any current London bonus.
If your thesis is that getting hit hard first, reduces the current rate ...well of course it does.Dead people remain dead. If your thesis is that getting hit first was an advantage, I really dispute that,. If your thesis is that the existence of a low grade Covid intensity in the miasma of the London air , somehow imparted a level of immunity by osmosis ... Well if only that were true!.
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I suspect they all had Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines for all three vaccinations.
I think we need to separate out the vaccinations figures by the products used.
Don't think you can state that Danidl.. Throughout this pandemic it seems some have been able to go about business, mixing with infected people and not become infected and perhaps millions have had the disease with virtually no symptoms at all. Surely that's some kind of natural inbuilt response against not catching it or dealing with it if it breaks down infection barriers.
I believe that's been case with most if not all pandemics. Some do seem to simply not become infected. (Typhoid Mary and there are reports of many during plague helping others and never succumbing)
I suspect we simply don't know what's going on.
What is going on in the much vaunted 20% of infected who simply brush it off? What's going on in kids who also seem to have (in general) few problems shrugging covid off.??
Not entirely convinced. We have seen several reports of people who have very obviously been exposed to Covid but have not fallen ill. It is difficult, maybe impossible, to be sure why. But it seems entirely feasible that some people do have a difference in their immune system which makes it so. Whether that is strictly natural, or acquired from some other direction, who knows? We've seen numerous suggestions that some other coronavirus diseases might result in a degree of immunity to Covid.
Empty meaningless words, fluff.
Acquired immunity is the natural immunity to an invading disease,
Your two uses of full is nonsensical, playing with words. One is either infected or not.
The London evidence over both years is strong, emphatic and undeniable.
London also shows the risk of death is almost 20% lower with high levels of immunity from prior infection.
As for Long Covid, its blindingly obvious that the methods of assessing the degree of its existence are defective, most blatantly in a BMJ article online.
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I dislocated and broke my wrist recently, is there any issue with me getting the booster? I was about to book online before a biggish badger jumped out in front of my bike:
www.pedelecs.co.uk
Unavoidable Bicycle Badger Collision
Broke my wrist in two places, plus dislocated it to such an extent that it was hanging on by a thread. In hospital since Thursday - plate fitted, but only after two very painful attempts to put the wrist back in place (under local anaesthetic) - but because the "Ball" joint had broken, it kept...
www.pedelecs.co.uk
You may reasonably say so... But that is not immunity,it is statistical chance. Just like fleccs entire family could smoke like chimneys for decades and not succumb to cancer , whereas others have no such luck. . Just some people have better genetic makeup against certain diseases and others don't. You would have to measure the antibodies of everyone on earth who has not yet had a chance of being exposed to Covid, and PCR test them,to make that assertion.
Even known genetic defects can impart evolutionary advantages under certain circumstances. Cystic Fibrosis , with which I am somewhat familiar has been postulated as protecting against certain illnesses TB and Cholera , while allowing others to thrive.
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This is why I also need to get the winter flu shot: Immunity from other coronaviruses could help fight Covid. Mind you, the the apalling death rate in care homes last year from Covid doesn't bode well in that regard.
Of course in that context you are correct and we are in agreement. But Internet usage is equating "Natural Immunity " as that which is acquired during a live infection from the full active Virus . They are trying to make a distinction between that and an "unnatural" immunity from a vaccine. The inference and subtext is that ."...unnatural is bad, natural is good ,so get the full infection .. therefore be antivax. ".
There are a number of possible outcomes from an initial Covid or indeed any similar infection .
1The bodies protection system just wipes out the invader.. a dirty nose, or a quick swallow and stomach acids wipe it out before we know. This is a very common response to anything and probably vitamins, the daily orange juice, the glass of whiskey stops it. We are constantly being assaulted and unless we are immunocompromised, we wpe them out.
2The infection is low grade , probably because the viral load was small, and we get sick and our proper immune system gets to work and we fight it off on our feet. Whether we even acknowledge this as Covid is chance. The immune system probably makes antibodies, and then promptly forgets
3 The infection is heavier and may or may not require bed rest ,the immune system has more work to do , makes plenty of antibodies . Immune response strong and visible infection on PCR tests.
4 Ditto except there are complications ..poorer circulation, poorer respiration, being chubby ,and needs hospitalisation. Some of these people will die from their other complications
5 heavier load probably, immune response goes into overdrive, requires serious hospital intervention. Some of these people die solely from Covid Immune response complications.
It is only those in 3,4,5 which make it on to the Covid statistics as infections. It is those classes I call a full infection
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