Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Johnson’s CBI speech shouldn’t be derided solely on the basis of the mocking headlines. Though that was a good start. No, of course not, look at some of the rest and ask if any of it is real, true, factual.



Sorry – quickly found figures for 2017 – which show north-east way behind south-east.



https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/686571/RTS_Q4_2017.pdf



“Great to be here in Tyneside, the number one exporting region of the UK. Great to be with the CBI. And I want to begin with a massive thank you to British business for keeping going, for looking after your employees, for rising to the challenge, for responding to the call for ventilators in those first dark days.



Looks to me as if the largest supplied ventilators were by Penlon in Abingdon. Not the north-east.



Here in the north-east, Nissan has decided to make an enormous bet on new electric vehicles and, together with Envision, there is now a massive new gigafactory for batteries.



There is a factory. But the massive new gigafactory has not yet been built.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

I find it astonishing that Downing Street has seen fit to issue this double-denial:

Boris Johnson is not unwell and has not lost his grip, says No 10

Dignifying the allegations with a response, any response but especially this response, surely acts to amplify the seriousness rather than neutralise them?

Johnson was clowning around in early 2020 saying he was going to “send the virus packing” like it was a brown man in a dinghy. Next he was boasting about shaking hands with infected people. Shortly after that he was close to death being treated for covid on an intensive care ward. Now he’s suffering from long covid. The man is an arse-hole who understands nothing about the situation he is supposed to be leading us through.

 

[oyster]

Vaccinations potentially have consequences. So, too, do non-vaccinations!

I couldn't help a feeling of Schadenfreude.

Seven doctors contract Covid after attending Florida anti-vaccine summit
Doctors tested positive or developed symptoms ‘within days’ of conference at which alternative treatments were discussed

Seven doctors contract Covid after attending Florida anti-vaccine summit

Doctors tested positive or developed symptoms ‘within days’ of conference at which alternative treatments were discussed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Zlatan]

I have never done that and it's wrong of you to imply it. Below is my March 8th post which started this discussion, note the three highlighted sections, and remember that only yesterday I was still saying we should all use the vaccines:

"I don't need to argue about the vaccines potential failure, as vaccines they're rather unsuccessful and sometimes even on the verge of failure, and that is before we even know how long their limited protection lasts.

The function of a vaccine is to prevent one getting the targeted disease and we've had some highly successful ones, the best being the Smallpox vaccine which has totally eliminated that terrible disease. There are a number of other highly successful ones in the active, inactive and sub-unit groups, chiefly those against Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, Tetanus, Diptheria, Pertussis (Whooping Cough) and Influenza.

Unfortunately the vaccines we have against Covid-19 cannot prevent us from contracting the disease in anything like all cases. They do however limit the ill effects of the disease when we do catch it, though for how long we don't know. The benefits so far we are told, as well as some degree of prevention of catching Covid, are a large reduction in the need for hospitalisation and a reduction in the transmissibility of the virus. Both are very useful and valid reasons why we should all be innoculated for everyone's sake.

But as vaccines against contracting Covid-19, with efficacy levels in the way they are being applied from as low as 54% at times, they are too often unsatisfactory, as shown by other vaccines with efficacy rates from 50% to somewhat over 60% being officially termed failures. One of the approved Covid vaccines only averages 66% protection against contracting the the disease and the claims of others for 95% or even 100% protection are only for some in certain circumstances. So even calling them vaccines in the accepted meaning of the word is ambitious. Quote:

"Vaccines are designed to prevent disease, rather than treat a disease once you have caught it."

But of course the Covid-19 vaccines in many instances are treating, having insufficiently prevented, so are best regarded as antigens**, highly desirable precautionary medicines rather than highly effective vaccines, ensuring if the disease is caught that the ill effects for the victim and others are minimised, albeit for a yet unknown period.

Fortunately the makers are well aware of their limitations and are already promising forthcoming boosters and/or replacements, so hopefully they'll substantially improve given time and may one day better qualify as highly effective vaccines.

Of course one way we can already improve the disease prevention performance of the vaccines is to get the full dosage into arms at the fastest recommended interval instead of continuing the delaying, or simply use them as single dose vaccines.

** An antigen boosts the immune system against a specific disease, especially promoting the production of antibodies."

Flecc, your final analysis of whether to have vaccine or not is not in dispute. Yes, ofcourse we all know you support its use because you had it. You made that binary choice of yes, or a" 1" in binary.. Yes, you had it. Fine... But the arguments you offer could be and are used by many to refuse the jab. Your evidence and examples point towards a fairly low opinion of the vaccine. Personally think those views, for benefit of all, should be kept to yourself. Especially so having had the vaccine. Much as I agree we should see vaccine warts and all it seems most on here, including yourself, are more concerned with presenting the warts side... And not the benefits, which is strange as you found enough evidence to have the vaccine. If you must put forward negative aspects for all our sakes present the positive ones aswell.
For example the other day (on the 45 deaths and 40,000 infections) you didn't answer the question. What do you think those figures would be without our vaccines.. I guessed 450 deaths and 400,000 infections? What's your guess?

 

[flecc]

If you must put forward negative aspects for all our sakes present the positive ones as well.

That's exactly what I did do, spelling out the advantages of them, despite the shortfalls.

I completely disagree on your conclusions if we didn't have the vaccines. After all we didn't have them in 2020 which include the initial surge and the Alpha surge and we ended that on December 31st with 72,000 deaths recorded by the government as due to Covid.

For the whole of 2021 we have had the vaccines and just the one delta variant surge and have added another exactly 72,000 deaths bringing the total to 144,000 now.

2020 with 11 months from the first two infected on 29th January and 2021 with 11 months now, so the vaccines have made no difference to the deaths.

That is what I deal in, facts, not wild guesses or official propaganda.
.

 

[oyster]

Instead of (or as well as) face masks, we all need nose clips. Financial Times spilling more beans:

David Cameron lobbied Tory associate at Lloyds Bank to rescue Greensill deal
UK lender maintained ties with ailing supply-chain finance firm after Lord James Lupton intervened
new 4 minutes ago

• British Business Bank’s due diligence on Greensill ‘woefully inadequate’, says report
• Scottish government guarantee to Sanjeev Gupta was £586m
• Greensill Capital

 

[soundwave]

That's exactly what I did do, spelling out the advantages of them, despite the shortfalls.

I completely disagree on your conclusions if we didn't have the vaccines. After all we didn't have them in 2020 which include the initial surge and the Alpha surge and we ended that on December 31st with 72,000 deaths recorded by the government as due to Covid.

For the whole of 2021 we have had the vaccines and just the one delta variant surge and have added another exactly 72,000 deaths bringing the total to 144,000 now.

2020 with 11 months from the first two infected on 29th January and 2021 with 11 months now, so the vaccines have made no difference to the deaths.

That is what I deal in, facts, not wild guesses or official propaganda.
.

There have been three great world pandemics of plague recorded, in 541, 1347, and 1894 CE, each time causing devastating mortality of people and animals across nations and continents. On more than one occasion plague irrevocably changed the social and economic fabric of society.

and yet they never had any vaccine and guess what we are all still here and was not wiped out.

The History of Plague – Part 1. The Three Great Pandemics

the history of plague is very scary. There have been three great world pandemics of plague recorded, in 541, 1347, and 1894 CE.

jmvh.org

Overall trends in deaths, 1915 to 2015
Not only have the causes of death changed over time, but so have the number of people dying.

The number of deaths in England and Wales has decreased in the past century, whereas there has been an increase in the population; particularly the number of elderly people.

In 1915, there were 562,253 deaths in England and Wales, compared with 529,655 deaths in 2015, a decrease of 5.8%

Causes of death over 100 years - Office for National Statistics

Explore and learn more about how the causes of death have changed over the last century.

www.ons.gov.uk

There were 451,770 deaths registered in England and 29,462 in Wales during the first ten months (January to October) of 2021.

Causes of death over 100 years - Office for National Statistics

Explore and learn more about how the causes of death have changed over the last century.

www.ons.gov.uk

Deaths in the UK from 1990 to 2020

Deaths in the UK from 1990 to 2020 - Office for National Statistics

www.ons.gov.uk

Year	Number of deaths	Population (Thousands)	Crude mortality rate (per 100,000 population)	Age-standardised mortality rate (per 100,000 population)
2020	608,002	59,829	1,016.20	1,043.50
2019	530,841	59,440	893.1	925
2018	541,589	59,116	916.1	965.4
2017	533,253	58,745	907.7	965.3
2016	525,048	58,381	899.3	966.9
2015	529,655	57,885	915	993.2
2014	501,424	57,409	873.4	953
2013	506,790	56,948	889.9	985.9
2012	499,331	56,568	882.7	987.4
2011	484,367	56,171	862.3	978.6
2010	493,242	55,692	885.7	1,017.10
2009	491,348	55,235	889.6	1,033.80
2008	509,090	54,842	928.3	1,091.90
2007	504,052	54,387	926.8	1,091.80
2006	502,599	53,951	931.6	1,104.30
2005	512,993	53,575	957.5	1,143.80
2004	514,250	53,152	967.5	1,163.00
2003	539,151	52,863	1,019.90	1,232.10
2002	535,356	52,602	1,017.70	1,231.30
2001	532,498	52,360	1,017.00	1,236.20
2000	537,877	52,140	1,031.60	1,266.40
1999	553,532	51,933	1,065.80	1,320.20
1998	553,435	51,720	1,070.10	1,327.20
1997	558,052	51,560	1,082.30	1,350.80
1996	563,007	51,410	1,095.10	1,372.50
1995	565,902	51,272	1,103.70	1,392.00
1994	551,780	51,116	1,079.50	1,374.90
1993	578,512	50,986	1,134.70	1,453.40
1992	558,313	50,876	1,097.40	1,415.00
1991	570,044	50,748	1,123.30	1,464.30
1990	564,846	50,561	1,117.20	1,462.60

 

[GLJoe]

... the one that wikipedia descibes as...

Ok, research 101 :
Don't rely on Wikipedia, and never, ever use it to try and ascertain the credibility of anyone, especially someone who's going against conventional narrative, government policy, or organisations that carry immense power such as Big Ag, Big Pharma etc.

And its not just me saying it. How about the co-founder of Wikipedia itself, Dr Larry Sanger: "I no longer trust the website I created"
Here's an example of him commenting on some matters with Uk's Freddie Sayers from UnHerd: (well worth following BTW)

And if you want some further evidence, there are some 50+ articles compiled here from various other sources:
https://garynull.com/wikipediawatch/

Wikipedia started out well. But as with many innovations, its original purpose has been hijacked by people and organisations in power. And they often don't have truth, transparency and the welfare of the individual as their number one priority. In fact its usually the opposite.

 

[GLJoe]

...so the vaccines have made no difference to the deaths.

flecc - I haven't had a chance to go through this myself as yet, but I've just come across this and the title caught my attention - I thought you might want to check the data out:
"UK Data Shows No All-Cause Mortality Benefit for COVID-19 Vaccines"

https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/uk-data-shows-no-all-cause-mortality

 

[Zlatan]

Come back Polly.

 

[Zlatan]

Ok, research 101 :
Don't rely on Wikipedia, and never, ever use it to try and ascertain the credibility of anyone, especially someone who's going against conventional narrative, government policy, or organisations that carry immense power such as Big Ag, Big Pharma etc.

And its not just me saying it. How about the co-founder of Wikipedia itself, Dr Larry Sanger: "I no longer trust the website I created"
Here's an example of him commenting on some matters with Uk's Freddie Sayers from UnHerd: (well worth following BTW)

And if you want some further evidence, there are some 50+ articles compiled here from various other sources:
https://garynull.com/wikipediawatch/

Wikipedia started out well. But as with many innovations, its original purpose has been hijacked by people and organisations in power. And they often don't have truth, transparency and the welfare of the individual as their number one priority. In fact its usually the opposite.

Yep, my mate won't use Google anymore. Apparently its corrupted (by Bill Gates) and will corrupt all its users accordingly towards World Government politics. That's utter BS aswell..
Other funny one is World Alliance of Doctors. Good god, aren't we in a mess. Everybody and their brother has a new conspiracy and their own crazy opinions about everything.

 

[GLJoe]

I haven't had a chance to go through this myself as yet, but I've just come across this and the title caught my attention

Hmmm. And here is another one:
"Vaccinated English adults under 60 are dying at twice the rate of unvaccinated people the same age"
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/vaccinated-english-adults-under-60

I can't vouch for the validity of that analysis yet, but fortunately, the author gives a direct link to the official UK government ONS statistics excel data. So if anyone here who thinks the conclusion is incorrect and wants to do their own checking - its there for you.

 

[Woosh]

Ok, research 101 :
Don't rely on Wikipedia, and never, ever use it to try and ascertain the credibility of anyone, especially someone who's going against conventional narrative, government policy, or organisations that carry immense power such as Big Ag, Big Pharma etc.

let's stay factual and leave the merits of wikipedia out of this. Did Dr Yeadon claim that Covid was "effectively over" in October 2020? Did he claim that vaccines were unnecessary? Did he claim that mRNA vaccines contain syncytin-1?

 

[Zlatan]

Hmmm. And here is another one:
"Vaccinated English adults under 60 are dying at twice the rate of unvaccinated people the same age"
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/vaccinated-english-adults-under-60

I can't vouch for the validity of that analysis yet, but fortunately, the author gives a direct link to the official UK government ONS statistics excel data. So if anyone here who thinks the conclusion is incorrect and wants to do their own checking - its there for you.

This is the trouble when none maths trained folk start reading conclusions from data drawn up to mislead in first place.
For a start the unvaccinated now represent a generally healthier group than vaccinated. (apart from fact most I know smoke weed just to help their defunct reasoning) and a younger and significantly smaller one at that. You simply aren't comparing like with like and since we now have a massive proportion of population vaccinated (and clue we started vaccinating the very old and probably dying first anyway ) its absolutely impossible to draw any conclusions as your discredited statistician wants you to. For goodness sake. Give it a break. Its utter BS.
When your mum took you for you jabs as a kid did you protest and start questioning the process that probably stopped you getting polio.. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you..bite the people trying to save us. I, m sorry, I find it pathetic.
Just go and get the jab and stop discrediting something saving lives. It's killing people.

 

[Woosh]

can't vouch for the validity of that analysis yet, but fortunately, the author gives a direct link to the official UK government ONS statistics excel data. So if anyone here who thinks the conclusion is incorrect and wants to do their own checking - its there for you.

I downloaded the excel tables. There are two periods Jan 21-July 21 and Jan 21 to Sep 21.

Here are the main points from ONS, compare them to the article and the graph that the author has concocted.

quote:

• In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.
• The risk of death involving COVID-19 was consistently lower for people who had received two vaccinations compared to one or no vaccination, as shown by the weekly age-standardised mortality rates (ASMRs) for deaths involving COVID-19.

 

[Zlatan]

I downloaded the excel tables. There are two periods Jan 21-July 21 and Jan 21 to Sep 21.

Here are the main points from ONS, compare them to the article and the graph that the author has concocted.

quote:

• In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.
• The risk of death involving COVID-19 was consistently lower for people who had received two vaccinations compared to one or no vaccination, as shown by the weekly age-standardised mortality rates (ASMRs) for deaths involving COVID-19.

But the ONS is part of the conspiracy Woosh. We can't believe them. (Don't have a sarcastic irony emoji)

 

[GLJoe]

I downloaded the excel tables.

I've just downloaded the spreadsheet as well and I'm looking at table 4 as instructed.
The figures seem to match up.
what do you think is incorrect in the graph ???
(or the interpretation of the data ??)

 

[soundwave]

But the ONS is part of the conspiracy Woosh. We can't believe them. (Don't have a sarcastic irony emoji)

all you need to look at is the total mortality rate over the years and it shows deaths from this virus is low compared to the population and shutting down most treatments from the nhs that must be taken in to account for 2020.

now deaths involving covid and tested positive with covid within 28 days of death does not mean anything as total deaths is not that much different over the years.

mrna vaccines was developed in 1992 and was meant for things like cancer and in 2017 it was dumped as dose to little and does nothing and dose to much and is toxic for humans.

coronaviruses was first discovered and named in the 1920s with the first electron microscope was developed and this virus has been mutating for thousands of years and no cure has ever been made since it was discovered bar the flu jab that changes every year.

Right Now - Gareth Icke Talks To Dr Tom Cowan About The Invisible Virus & The Covid Cult

To watch the full episode - www.ickonic.com/rightnow

www.bitchute.com

the way they test for these things is total nonsense but makes them big bucks for there flawed products that dont work and cant be sued!

 

[soundwave]

 

[Danidl]

That's exactly what I did do, spelling out the advantages of them, despite the shortfalls.

I completely disagree on your conclusions if we didn't have the vaccines. After all we didn't have them in 2020 which include the initial surge and the Alpha surge and we ended that on December 31st with 72,000 deaths recorded by the government as due to Covid.

For the whole of 2021 we have had the vaccines and just the one delta variant surge and have added another exactly 72,000 deaths bringing the total to 144,000 now.

2020 with 11 months from the first two infected on 29th January and 2021 with 11 months now, so the vaccines have made no difference to the deaths.

That is what I deal in, facts, not wild guesses or official propaganda.
.

Flecc, you continue to ignore the quantitive effect that a virus producing 1200 more active particles per second has on transmission rates. That is the difference between Delta and the versions circulating a year earlier.