Cockroaches for starters.. I, ll stick with Prawn Cocktail thanks.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
If that's supporting current vaccine just glad you aren't against it.
It certainly sounds same as rhetoric from anti vaccine folk I know..
Bill Gates or Big Pharma getting rich..
Its odd isn't it. Big bike companies have made more money than any time in history. Perhaps they, ve had a hand in it all aswell.
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Let me remind you 20,000 dead would be a "Good result"
Pretty large number
The actual so far is over 145,000
Are you insisting this is anything but a defeat? and it is still claiming lives every day
I'm certainly not anti vaccine as I showed by chasing for both my jabs after being missed off a list somewhere and now striving to get a booster somehow. But I do believe the current vaccines deserve critical comment since there's currently no incentive for big pharma to do any better, quite the opposite in fact. That's why the booster isn't new or even improved, it's just a bit more of the same.
As things stand they are laughing all the way to the bank, £40 a jab and two each, then a booster every six months, possibly for ever.
Like any company their first responsibility is to their shareholders and for that their current Covid vaccine situation is ideal. Creating a single jab for life could kill that prospect.
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No, not saying anything of kind. They also said we could see 500,000 dead...
And as far as I can see life is absolutely as normal. No masks, very little social distancing, pubs, arenas, restaurants, schools, transport and colleges all open.
45k infections yesterday. How many and where would we be with no vaccine.??
As for folk making money. Goes without saying, of course they do. But to suggest they are holding back on a better alternative is grossly offensive to those involved and does add justification to those looking for excuses to not have vaccine.
My mate insists the entire episode is constructed for big pharma and such as Microsoft to make billions. You are only half way to a conspiracy theory. Mate is fully blown. He is wrong aswell, but can't be convinced.. And hasn't had vaccine..
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But none of them are additional deaths. They've died of Covid rather than the other things that would have got them instead. Perhaps handily the life expectancy increases we'd got used to since WW2 have stalled since the millennium so we've started from a firm base for measuring the effect of Covid.
We all die so we won't know the real effect of Covid for at least a decade when we find out if average life expectancy has reduced and by how much, if anything.
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about 10 millions have had covid positive tests and probably another 10 millions did not even know the have had it.
For them, the vaccines only offer small additional protection.
I am not an antivaxxer but I am not dead set against antivaxxers either.
Ditto, and if a nurse or doctor treating me hasn't wished to have the vaccines, that's fine by me. Just a surgical mask, the protective clothing of their profession, is all I ask.
I'm strongly opposed to forcing them to vaccinate.
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Not sure point you are making here.
Where would UK be without vaccine and its high early infection rates?
Are you suggesting we, d be in exactly same place, a little worse or far worse without vaccine(s)?
I, d suggest evidence (as mentioned by Danidl) says we, d be in far worse place?
ICUs full in Ireland from only 5% of population??
Sorry, I just don't understand either the criticism of our current vaccines or why people would want to dismiss their (now proven) positive affects. Yes, we all now they aren't perfect. They were never going to be. But the effect they have had is proven to be highly beneficial.
Some people seem to have been determined from the very start to undermine the vaccines. People on here are doing so and ironically insist they support its use. They want it both ways. "Give me the crappy vaccine, it doesn't work properly but I still want it".. For the life of me I don't get that at all. My anti vaxxer friend is easier to understand. He insists its a massive conspiracy, goes on to explain why with some utterly ridiculous arguments, but sticks to his thoughts. ie) he refuses jab.
Seems a few on here list all its faults, claim conspiracy to make money but then have the jab. Don't get it. If jab/vaccine/booster has such poor efficacy don't have it. But don't have it then come on here shouting how crap it is.
People are criticising it on the one hand but rolling up at centres to have it on the other. Surely at least contradictory.
It's a binary decision. You either have the vaccine or don't.
I wonder what we would think of someone who claimed vaccine perfect and then went on to not have it. (without medical justification)..
Well the reverse is just as odd, but strangely understandable in the strange atmosphere of this thread. It seems perfectly reasonable that OG has spent the last 12 months attacking the vaccine, with support from various places, but then insists on having it. Then surprise, surprise.. Expresses consternation when his irony is pointed out.. Only in here.
People really should carefully read Danidl's post. I think there was a lot said between the lines. Just for a moment put yourselves in a similar position. Awaiting a serous op for a loved one, ICU is full of unvaccinated. Covid patients. So op cancelled. Then some on here extolling the reasons behind not having vaccine.?? I suspect I would have been far less diplomatic. But we know that anyways.
Said it before, and I, ll say it again and I don't care if OG says I, m preaching.
All of us should be really careful at putting forward negative aspects of vaccines,wether you, ve had it or not. Lots are looking for what they see as legitimate reasons to refuse jab and in reality there are none.
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There's no need for anyone to personally lose their home asset value. I've secured mine twice by cashing them in and spending the money on enjoying life.Interesting take in the Social Care Bill
Most houses in Hull are pretty much as indicated for the North East
Take my current flat:
Bought 1967 for £4150
Cashed in long ago for 52% of current value at 72 years old, netting me £73,000, while being entitled to continue to live there until I'm 130 years old.
Of course I haven't sat on the money since it could be claimed if I went into care, I've turned much of it onto other assets like my electric car, my 65" OLED TV etc., leaving just under the cash amount they can't snatch from me.
Of course the name of this game for profit is to live longer than the mortgager expects, in my case 79/80 years old. Since I'm 85 now and still going strong I've been a very bad bet for them.
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it's difficult to say.
A lot of countries have little or no vaccines and rely on passive measures to mitigate the disease.
You can see typical waves in number of new cases and deaths, basically, after a big wave, there will be a big trough, showing that infections create herd immunity.
No it's not contradictory and certainly not a binary decision.
Many things in life are both desirable and useful but far from good enough. So we have them for the good they can give but wish for better, so point out what it is we want better. Thus it is with the vaccines.
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I think they already have, or at least our small part of it, the Tories have either been in or shared power for most of the last 100 years.
No, it's a binary decision flecc. You either have it or not. If you, ve decided to have it and had it. That's it. You, ve had it.
To then go on and criticise it is entirely different to saying we could do with a more efficient one. Of course we could. To say it's improvement is being delayed for financial reasons is as critical of its developers as possible and could easily be interpreted by a anti vaxxers as sufficient reason to not have it. I, ve heard anti vaxxers make same argument. "I, m waiting for a more efficient vaccine".. In mean time ICUs are filling up with people who made those arguments, wishing they hadn't no doubt, months ago.
You come over as a well educated, learned person. Any arguments any of us make against the vaccine can be construed as reasons to not have it.
I honestly think, if any person has had it, that's it. Forget it. Move on.
Really flecc, this whole episode is fracturing friendships with one side making arguments like yours and OGS, and others saying just have the damned thing.
That friend I mentioned listed everything we have spoken about on here, then added its too new, it needs research, it's for making money for pharma (and Bill Gates??) ad infinitum... Then I asked him if he enjoyed India. Yes if course, it was great. (he went 3 years ago). How many vaccines did you have before you went. Four he replied. He couldn't even tell me what he, d been vaccinated against let alone what was in them or how efficient they were. Yet, he had researched to the hilt about covid vaccine.
We, ve done same on here. Researched, argued, debated and justified..
Really we should have it... Move on.. And shut up about it.
We really should not feed those looking to not have the vaccine. It's still a fair %age here, 40% in Austria and I believe even higher in NZ...
All the discussion is damaging the uptake. Its simple really. The vaccine is not perfect but it's not that bad and its all we have. We should all have it.
Society has got so wishy washy, every one of us has an opinion about covid and the vaccine against it. NHS aren't just fighting Covid and all the other things they do for us. They are fighting an Ocean of disinformation and opinions learned from places like this.
When I was a kid it would have been "this is to try and stop you becoming ill, take it"
And we all took it.
Now some fool on Internet posts some garbage on YouTube and before you know it... Kids aren't having jabs and adults refuse covid vaccines. They all know so much... But don't.
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Flecc you disagree... But had vaccine.. Odd.
And perhaps not so learned then?
No it is not anything of the sort, you're view is extreme. Most of the things we enjoy in life could be better and only get better when their defects are commented upon.
At present with so much excess praise and apologists for the vaccines there's no incentive for change. That's already been proven. We've known for years the hovering threat of Sars 2 and the certainty that we'd get hit in due course, but big pharma did little to nothing about that.
Nor should they of course since they aren't a charity when there can only be costs and no profit for their shareholders.
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I disagree with your extremism, this world is full of shades of grey as I've clearly shown.
Everything is imperfect, but still has value.
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