Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

I'd like to ask a general question to anyone here.
What does 'fully vaccinated' actually mean??

Its a good and highly pertinent question and my answer is ..as recommended by the manufacturer and the designers ,and accepted by the validating authorities with statutory responsibility for adherence to published standards. These being the trial data used for validation.
In the case of the Pfizer that is two jabs at a spacing of 4 weeks and then 3 weeks after the second Jab. Other vaccination materials have different regimes.

What is being discovered is that even protection with full vaccination, this wanes in time. How rapidly and to what extent is a matter for conjecture and clinical research.

 

[oyster]

Currently, both first and second jabs received, as defined by the proposed vaccine passports.

If boosters arrive, that definition will change.
.

If Janssen arrives, that will change.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Theres a (very) difficult paradox in it, I find. I could retire now. But what would I do? Ultimately sitting on a sailboat - as Ellen MacArthur once pointed out - can be like being trapped in a studio flat in a watery desert. Not very meaningful. Saw an angry schizoaffective patient about to make a formal complaint Friday. At first dreaded it (sandwiched between an incompetent amoral layer of management and a difficult precarious treatment). But it became a very meaningful, engaged, alive experience. The difficult moral of the story, for me, is that making enough to support oneself can be more meaningful, good for oneself as much ad others, society (even if it's also a pain in the arse)

I prefer a bit voluntary work these days. Much more rewarding and generally nicer people to ge around than fellow employees. It’s also nice to have the finances to do what I want when I want to do it (within reason).

Anyway, don’t spend all day replying to me, get of down to Farm Foods for those Twizzlers & Arctic Roll. They won’t stay on the shelves for ever you know!

 

[oyster]

Its a good and highly pertinent question and my answer is ..as recommended by the manufacturer and the designers ,and accepted by the validating authorities with statutory responsibility for adherence to published standards. These being the trial data used for validation.
In the case of the Pfizer that is two jabs at a spacing of 4 weeks and then 3 weeks after the second Jab. Other vaccination materials have different regimes.

What is being discovered is that even protection with full vaccination, this wanes in time. How rapidly and to what extent is a matter for conjecture and clinical research.

There is an issue when someone had two different vaccines - as NOT recommended by manufacturers but sometimes necessary (for example, when the person has a bad reaction to the first vaccination). Or when the time between them conflicts with manufacturer advice.

 

[Danidl]

Theres a (very) difficult paradox in it, I find. I could retire now. But what would I do? Ultimately sitting on a sailboat - as Ellen MacArthur once pointed out - can be like being trapped in a studio flat in a watery desert. Not very meaningful. Saw an angry schizoaffective patient about to make a formal complaint Friday. At first dreaded it (sandwiched between an incompetent amoral layer of management and a difficult precarious treatment). But it became a very meaningful, engaged, alive experience. The difficult moral of the story, for me, is that making enough to support oneself can be more meaningful, good for oneself as much ad others, society (even if it's also a pain in the arse)

An experience I had, and shared with many colleagues who have since retired, is that the last 3 years of one's working life is the most enjoyable and maybe even productive. One is not interested in climbing up greasy poles,, one has a certain level of seniority and dare I say competence, and should there be an obnoxious superior well one is soon rid of them... . This would be the case in Public Service where one is obligated to retire anyway, unlikely to be fired ,except for something gross ..and one knows where all the skeletons vare buried.

 

[Danidl]

There is an issue when someone had two different vaccines - as NOT recommended by manufacturers but sometimes necessary (for example, when the person has a bad reaction to the first vaccination). Or when the time between them conflicts with manufacturer advice.

Exceptions do occur..and they are by definition exceptional but I was alluding more to systemic pseudo political interference or indeed direct political interference.

 

[GLJoe]

Currently, both first and second jabs received, as defined by the proposed vaccine passports.

If boosters arrive, that definition will change.

This is what I was wondering about. I wasn't sure if there was a 'set in stone' definition here in the UK, and I seem to recall hearing something a few days ago that mentioned Israel had changed the definition because of the need (insistence?) for a third, booster jab, and there was talk of a FOURTH imminent.
Israel seems to be the poster child for rolling out the vaccinations, however the UK can't be far behind. I wonder if we will follow suit?

It does make one wonder if there will ever be an end?
How do people here feel if you need a booster shot every 6 months for the rest of your life?

 

[flecc]

It does make one wonder if there will ever be an end?
How do people here feel if you need a booster shot every 6 months for the rest of your life?

It could well become an annual jab like the 'flu one. In that case it could hopefully be combined as one jab, or if not, one in each arm at the same time.

If it does become annual or biannual for the whole population, perhaps we'll need to consider it a step on the road to our eventual extinction.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think it’s still ok. Definitely more pitfalls and you’ve got to be very careful. I know a couple of people who have used the + equity in one house as a deposit to buy another. Then with house price inflation, done the same thing several times over until they own five or six houses, on paper. This is massively high risks. Even a modest downward shift in house prices will cause the banks to become jittery and the whole house of cards will come crashing down.

I’ve always bought my houses outright and they are yielding good rental returns and increased value. I expect the value to dip, not sure about rents, but I’ve had them long enough to absorb a drop in price and still be in a better position than had I put the money in a bank.

I’ve not had a bad tenant yet, but I’m confident I’d have them out within a month, regardless of what crap is in the law. There are ways & means and people who’ll do you a favour

Are you sure there isn't just a smidgeon of Bell Clan genes somewhere in your ancestry?
We used to specialise in doing people a favour (often after dark and with considerate taste)
They usually got the point

 

[Jesus H Christ]

This is what I was wondering about. I wasn't sure if there was a 'set in stone' definition here in the UK, and I seem to recall hearing something a few days ago that mentioned Israel had changed the definition because of the need (insistence?) for a third, booster jab, and there was talk of a FOURTH imminent.
Israel seems to be the poster child for rolling out the vaccinations, however the UK can't be far behind. I wonder if we will follow suit?

It does make one wonder if there will ever be an end?
How do people here feel if you need a booster shot every 6 months for the rest of your life?

As you say, we might end up in permanent conflict with the virus, needing two or three shots per year to keep severe illness under control. If that is the case, research and investment in simpler methods of administering the vaccine will be worthwhile. We could eventually have something we sprinkle on our cornflakes two or three times per year. That will be too much inconvenience for some people though.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Prince Andrew’s situation is looking more bleak. If he didn’t put his princely paws on that woman’s whaps, what does he have to worry about? Why all the shifty behaviour and looking for technicalities to excuse cooperating with the US investigation? A while back he said he would help in any way possible. This is his big chance to fulfil that pledge.

 

[Danidl]

Prince Andrew’s situation is looking more bleak. If he didn’t put his princely paws on that woman’s whaps, what does he have to worry about? Why all the shifty behaviour and looking for technicalities to excuse cooperating with the US investigation? A while back he said he would help in any way possible. This is his big chance to fulfil that pledge.

Really ? If he done the deed in the UK or plenty of other places it's all legal .. Remember this is not an investigation, it is a private suit .

 

[flecc]

Prince Andrew’s situation is looking more bleak. If he didn’t put his princely paws on that woman’s whaps, what does he have to worry about? Why all the shifty behaviour and looking for technicalities to excuse cooperating with the US investigation? A while back he said he would help in any way possible. This is his big chance to fulfil that pledge.

No, he should completely ignore it and refuse to respond in anyway. It's just more American neurotic nonsense. It's been one of the worst places in the world for child marriages with some being married at 12 or 13 years old until as little as four years ago. Once all the exemptions from the law are taken into account, several States still effectively have no minimum age for marriage.

This accusation from a worldly wise socialiser at 17 years old has probably only been prompted by Andrew being a prince.
.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Really ? If he done the deed in the UK or plenty of other places it's all legal .. Remember this is not an investigation, it is a private suit .

That’s the problem, he went to another country where his behaviour was contrary to the law at that time.

His big mistake was doing the TV interview. He should have kept his gob shut if this is how he is going to react.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Envy politics. Hatred of anyone who works and saves. Same old Labour. Settle in for a decade of Tory rule.

That's such a banal refrain. How about thinking about the current situation instead of defaulting to a conservative cliche from the turn of the last century. No offence, but if try to locate my feelings about a conservative voter who not only invoked the current catastrophic reality, but also look forward to many more years of it, it's a mixture of pity and disdain. So, no, not the politics of envy, more of pity.

 

[oldgroaner]

And the good news is

Completely mad of course

The astonishing claim that it will mean the government have tackled the world wide driver shortage, when it takes far longer to train to be an LGV driver than taking a test is bad enough, and then of the Transport minister will suddenly be shocked to learn there aren't enough qualified people to train them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436412229541371907

 

[oldgroaner]

That's such a banal refrain. How about thinking about the current situation instead of defaulting to a conservative cliche from the turn of the last century. No offence, but if try to locate my feelings about a conservative voter who not only invoked the current catastrophic reality, but also look forward to many more years of it, it's a mixture of pity and disdain. So, no, not the politics of envy, more of pity.

Actually you are not being fair with Jesus here, I rather like him for very compelling reasons
He's a Masochist
I'm a Sadist.
Works for me

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Actually you are not being fair with Jesus here, I rather like him for very compelling reasons
He's a Masochist
I'm a Sadist.
Works for me

there's a boring joke about sadists and masochistic where I come from (Belgian humour's nothing if not pedantic). Goes like this. A masochistic married a sadist, thinking it would be a perfect match. Flung herself on the bed on the wedding night, shouting "abuse me!". He stood back, grinned, and said "no". Lifes full of unintended consequences.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

That's such a banal refrain. How about thinking about the current situation instead of defaulting to a conservative cliche from the turn of the last century. No offence, but if try to locate my feelings about a conservative voter who not only invoked the current catastrophic reality, but also look forward to many more years of it, it's a mixture of pity and disdain. So, no, not the politics of envy, more of pity.

Any Artic Rolls left in Farm Foods? I could just eat a slice.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Any Artic Rolls left in Farm Foods? I could just eat a slice.

Come on, we both know you can do better than that.