Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

from epidemic point of view, the percentage of population lacking appropriate antibodies matters much more than their age. The Spanish flu killed a lot more young people while it's the reverse for covid. Different countries have different policies regarding what age is suitable for covid vaccination. That proves it's politics.

I know it's politics, but as I said, the cause isn't relevant. All that matters is that the data is useless by virtue of it's huge and deliberate inaccuracy.

The best measure of a country's vaccination performance and seriousness of intent is what it actually achieves with those who can be vaccinated under their policies.
.

 

[Danidl]

why?
Children get vaccinated since 6 month old.
The balance of benefit / risk of vaccinations is a political decision.

Not in Ireland it is a political decision ..which was my earlier point. It is a medical decision made by our public health service,and using whatever data they decide. I don't know why they have currently agreed that 12 is the lower limit, but I really suspect it is lack of data from trials.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

from epidemic point of view, the percentage of population lacking appropriate antibodies matters much more than their age. The Spanish flu killed a lot more young people while it's the reverse for covid. Different countries have different policies regarding what age is suitable for covid vaccination. That proves it's politics.

Well yes, I have two nhs colleagues who work directly with covid who were infected with covid (one with serious consequence) after being infected by their children after schools reopened before. But vaccinating children (for whom covid present less risk) for the sake of others who are more at risk (a bit like the debate around vaccinating nhs and care staff at present) presents a moral dilemma in a democracy like ours.

 

[oyster]

Well yes, I have two nhs colleagues who work directly with covid who were infected with covid (one with serious consequence) after being infected by their children after schools reopened before. But vaccinating children (for whom covid present less risk) for the sake of others who are more at risk (a bit like the debate around vaccinating nhs and care staff at present) presents a moral dilemma in a democracy like ours.

It is a dilemma.

Added to the possiiblities of side effects from vaccination, etc., there is also the psychological impact of a child realising that their beloved parents, grandparents or others, were infected because the child brought Covid to them. Especially if they die. No actual culpability is required, nor even proof that was how the infection arrived, just a feeling that they might have been the cause.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

It is a dilemma.

Added to the possiiblities of side effects from vaccination, etc., there is also the psychological impact of a child realising that their beloved parents, grandparents or others, were infected because the child brought Covid to them. Especially if they die. No actual culpability is required, nor even proof that was how the infection arrived, just a feeling that they might have been the cause.

I agree, and being of a neurotic disposition, I'd have gotten vaccinated if i were a child. But I'd have seriously mixed feelings if it were, in a parallel universe, to protect an extended family who were signed up members of the blue wall who rogered my education and future by voting for boris (and slaughtering care home residents, eating out etc etc etc as per his instructions)

 

[Woosh]

It is a dilemma.

I reckon the confusion is caused by our government.
For example: until earlier in the spring, pregnant women were told not to vaccinate, then around June/July when there were more doses available, one dose then now two.

 

[POLLY]

Makes me wonder what will NZ's (and others that went down isolation route) situation be in a couple of years time.
Lack of exposure reduces societies defences yet heightens anti vax sentiments.??? We all know our situation sure isnt great but seems governments are between a rock and a hard place. Worldometer now has UK 24th in deaths per million World wide.. Vietnam still way below that.

B.S

 

[POLLY]

But we now have the solution .. its called vaccination. And it is working. The figures are staggering about the numbers globally . Remember this is a product Which only became widely licenced for use about 9 months ago, and is still ramping up production , but 40% of the GLOBAL population have had a at least a jab. Very few jabs were done anywhere before March.. A combination of sensible social distancing protocol s, mark wearing and aggressive production and distribution of vaccines can win this war for us.

B.S

 

[POLLY]

Inconclusive indeed, I'm very aware of that locally. While the rest of the UK isn't doing very well on infections at the moment, much of London is doing better, often with low vaccination rates.

My own very large borough of Croydon which I've reported on before continues to perform comparably with national infections despite very low vaccination rates. In round numbers now:

UK vaccination rate: First 89%, Second 80%.

Croydon vaccination rate: First 67%, Second 59%.

Consistently now for a long time the 20 points or more vaccination deficit doesn't have a cost for us, despite the Delta variant long being very much present and our vaccination deficit being due to refuseniks, not shortages or lack of facilities.

There's so much we don't yet know about Covid-19.
.

B.S

 

[POLLY]

from epidemic point of view, the percentage of population lacking appropriate antibodies matters much more than their age. The Spanish flu killed a lot more young people while it's the reverse for covid. Different countries have different policies regarding what age is suitable for covid vaccination. That proves it's politics.

B,S

 

[POLLY]

Well yes, I have two nhs colleagues who work directly with covid who were infected with covid (one with serious consequence) after being infected by their children after schools reopened before. But vaccinating children (for whom covid present less risk) for the sake of others who are more at risk (a bit like the debate around vaccinating nhs and care staff at present) presents a moral dilemma in a democracy like ours.

B.S

 

[POLLY]

Indeed, Israel has at present one of the highest infection rates in the world. And covid hospital admissions are up 69% in uk sincecthe most recent lifting of restrictions in July.

B.S

 

[POLLY]

30% of hospital beds are needed for treating covid patients.
It will take time to increase the capacity of the NHS to cope with the load.
We also have to learn to accept hundreds of covid deaths every day.

B.S

 

[oldgroaner]

But if they can't be vaccinated, they have no logical place in vaccination performance figures since that part is unimprovable.

I get the arguments in support of whole population inclusion but they seem to be mostly so comparisons can be drawn. Why should they be, it's not a competition? All that matters in every country is achieving as close as possible to 100% of those we can vaccinate, but that cannot be shown by the present method of including the indeterminate number who can't be vaccinated.

Producing useless data is always irrational.
.

We have professional people to do that I believe they are called Accountants or is it Economists?

 

[oldgroaner]

I reckon the confusion is caused by our government.
For example: until earlier in the spring, pregnant women were told not to vaccinate, then around June/July when there were more doses available, one dose then now two.

I was surprised when they didn't advise Labour Voters to avoid vaccination, or did they sponsor anti vaxxers on the sly to do that?

 

[flecc]

We have professional people to do that I believe they are called Accountants or is it Economists?

Economists and Sociologists. Both aspire to telling others what is going on, without knowing it themselves.

The accountants only produce "proof" that they were right.
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

B.S

Bowel Sounds? Is it tympanic? Peritonitis? You poor girl.

 

[flecc]

Bowel Sounds? Is it tympanic? Peritonitis? You poor girl.

POLLY
Pedelecer · 58 · From Chesterfield

Believed to be a man and that never denied.
.

 

[oyster]

Who do you believe?


Food shortages ‘permanent’ and shoppers will never again enjoy full choice of items, Britons warned

Covid and Brexit have killed off ‘just-in-time’ deliveries, says industry boss – but No 10 insists Christmas will be ‘normal’

Food shortages in supermarkets and restaurants are “permanent” and shoppers will never again enjoy a full choice of items, an industry boss has told Britons.

In an extraordinary warning, the head of the Food and Drink Federation said staff shortages – triggered by a combination of Covid and Brexit – had killed off the “just-in-time” delivery model.


“I don’t think it will work again, I think we will see we are now in for permanent shortages,” Ian Wright said.


But Downing Street rejected the claim of a broken system and, in a potential hostage to fortune, predicted the shortages will be over by the festive season.

Pressed on whether the shortages will ease to allow people to enjoy a “normal Christmas”, Boris Johnson’s spokesman told The Independent: “I believe so, yes.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/food-shortages-brexit-covid-boris-johnson-b1917763.html

I know that other than this I have seen warnings over supplies of wine, turkeys, pasta, medicines, computer-related kit and, I am sure, many other lines.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

POLLY
Pedelecer · 58 · From Chesterfield

Believed to be a man and that never denied.
.

damn...there goes the fantasy of polly the nubile tory transexual who means yes when she says no..