Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Good plan. I hope they do it.
It’s not making vaccination mandatory, just a condition of entry to various venues. Gives the anti-vaccine clowns a choice.
If they are going to make it de facto mandatory, they should have the guts to say that is what they are doing. This is the lily-livered way of leaving it up to everyone else to do it because they are unable and unwilling to take the responsibility.
If this approach is used, I expect it to extend beyond specific venues to pretty much everywhere. Possibly including essential facilities such as food shops. And places of work.
I'd definitely be concerned about people who might not be able to accept a vaccination for medical reasons. There are quite a lot who at the least are unsure whether they should accept being vaccinated due to existing issues. Right now, I know of many who simply do not know whether there is any extra risk from a vaccination.
Meanwhile, trade negotiations appear to have found another (entirely predictable and actually well-known) issue:
Farm animals antibiotics data raises post-Brexit trade fears
Use of antibiotics on farms in US and Canada about five times the UK level, says report
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/01/farm-animals-antibiotics-data-raises-post-brexit-trade-fears
I have seen lots of discussion about antibiotic use in farming - and specific mention that the UK has, overall, done quite well in reducing their use. How anyone actually involved in the negotiations or preparation for them could not know suggests ignorance or wilfully ignoring the issues.
Farm animals antibiotics data raises post-Brexit trade fears
Use of antibiotics on farms in US and Canada about five times the UK level, says report
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/01/farm-animals-antibiotics-data-raises-post-brexit-trade-fears
I have seen lots of discussion about antibiotic use in farming - and specific mention that the UK has, overall, done quite well in reducing their use. How anyone actually involved in the negotiations or preparation for them could not know suggests ignorance or wilfully ignoring the issues.
I agree, this needs leadership. The government must state exactly what is expected from people, why it is necessary and what restrictions will result from non-compliance.
This government has no leaders. That’s a big problem. Matt Handcock waving his arms around and shouting isn’t leadership, it’s clownship. I don’t think he has confidence in his own ability and that’s why he shouts and flails his arms.
Johnson suffers with teddy bear syndrome, he just wants everyone to love and cuddle him. This means he lies and hides when a difficulty comes along, he can’t handle being unpopular.
Because they have no leadership qualities, they all tend leak stuff to the Daily Mail to see how it lands in the Reader’s comments section and then take their lead from that. As you say, a rather cowardly approach and highly likely to end in failure.
They should just lay it on the line, if you have no medical reason not to be vaccinated and still refuse, you aren’t going to be doing A B & C in future.
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I wouldn't worry too much about mandatory vaccinations, there's not a cat in hell's chance of that ever coming about. How could it be enforced...wear a badge that say's " I'm one ! " You can still see people going into stores without a mask on pleading some kind of exemption, besides I'm predicting there will be thousands if not millions who will not be having a jab. I'll be having it...in three an a half years time which is how long it takes to test a new vaccination on a grand scale.
The vaccination is part of a national effort. Circumstances dictate that it’s now time for a national identity card to be issued which can carry data such as vaccination status.
Like choosing whether to be vaccinated, the ID card can be an entirely voluntary scheme. However, if some cloth head chooses not to support the national effort because they’ve read and believed something on Facebook, they should forfeit any national assistance like benefits, furlough and healthcare.
If I get on a plane next year, I do want to be sat next to someone wearing a tinfoil hat claiming that Bill Gates is trying to inject them with a microchip disguised as a vaccine to fight a fake pandemic.
My vote would be, no vaccine, no free money or access to hospitality / leisure/ travel etc.
None of which would affect me though Barry. I don't want or need benefits of any kind, pay for Health care and have a mate who owns a pub which I wouldn't be barred from if I were on fire.
I'm not against vaccination but when you consider there are now at least seven in the offing non thoroughly tested so who knows what the long term effects could be. Everyone should and will be allowed to make their own minds up, this Gov can't enforce a proper lockdown let alone a mass vaccination program.
Just keep out of Lidl, Aldi & Farm Foods and you’ll be sound.
My mate sells beef to a Waitrose supplier, not an antibiotic anywhere near his farm. Animal welfare standards on the farm are exemplary too. I still don’t like the idea of happy & healthy animals being slaughtered though. Awful.
The real problem lies in mistrust of the government. They have got so much wrong, made so many mistakes and acted in a way which appears corrupt, whilst simultaneously applauding themselves and doing a lap of honour. When they say a vaccine is safe, you simply cannot rely on their say so.
It's worse than that. They are so consistently so wrong that one automatically believes anything they say must be wrong, even if reliable evidence suggests they may (for once) be right.
That's what's got me worried Barry, let us never forget this Government said right from the off masks don't work as did many scientific advisers but I knew they did and I don't advise the Gov funny that. They also said letting 15,000 people into the country per day at airports without any kind of check didn't matter because covid had already arrived, oh dear wrong again. The only thing that was shown to work at bringing covid infections down was a lockdown, and as expected when eased up went infections again. Now we have a kind of lockdown again and infections fall no doubt to increase again in the new year and so it goes on.
All I'm reading tells me of the hidden dangers of vaccinations, side affects which apparently exist but are never mentioned by the Gov or the companies churning this stuff out. I've also heard of dreadful things that happened to children who were given immunity modifying drugs, stomach churning TBH.
Won't work - you'd likely need to involve NHSBSA (NHS Business Services Authority) which is quite dysfunctional with its systems of record keeping.
And how would you produce your ID - paper / smart phone? have you dealt with the DVLA recently for paperwork? - and if you haven't got the latest iphone and can't run the required app then you're disenfranchised.
Admittedly yhey could throw a few millions of squid at the problem and get a Tory mate one of the ministers knows down the local to knock up certificates on his PC with MS excel from his shed and charge folk a premium...
Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use in the UK.
Covid Pfizer vaccine approved for use next week in UK - BBC News
Covid Pfizer vaccine approved for use next week in UK - BBC News
William Barr looking to the future I suspect and no wanting to end up in lots of trouble.
William Barr: no evidence of voter fraud that would change election outcome | William Barr | The Guardian
William Barr: no evidence of voter fraud that would change election outcome | William Barr | The Guardian
Stinks to the very end:
(CNN)The Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to funneling money to the White House or related political committee in exchange for a presidential pardon, according to court records unsealed Tuesday in federal court.
The case is the latest legal twist in the waning days of President Donald Trump's administration after several of his top advisers have been convicted of federal criminal charges and as the possibility rises of Trump giving pardons to those who've been loyal to him.
The disclosure is in 20 pages of partially redacted documents made public by the DC District Court on Tuesday afternoon. The records show Chief Judge Beryl Howell's review in August of a request from prosecutors to access documents obtained in a search as part of a bribery-for-pardon investigation.
I know you were an early mask wearer, as was I. Right from the start, it was pretty clear that the virus was airborne, but for some reason it took an age for anyone to admit that fact. I can only think they were feeding lives to the virus in order to protect PPE supplies. I find it hard to believe that no one twigged that a mask helps. Surely they aren’t that stupid?
I generally take my lead from the HoC these days. By that I mean MPs have not returned, which tells me that infection levels are still so high that it makes it too risky to be indoors with people outside of your household. I knew that anyway.
I’ll probably go for the vaccine after the HoC has returned to normal business. Once that happens, it will be a good indication that MPs and the Cabinet have been vaccinated, it’s working and they aren’t aware of any adverse side affects which they’ve deliberately not disclosed to the public. It would be good leadership for all of the MPs, the senior leading medical figures, the Jockey & Bingo to go first.
Well I never. The company that now has first and second class pricing in their shops has seen the negatives of half a billion or so dropping in their laps:
Tesco to repay Covid-19 business rates relief
Good morning, and welcome to our rolling coverage of the world economy, the financial markets, the eurozone and business.
Some breaking news to start the morning - Tesco, UK’s largest supermarket chain, is repaying £585m of business rates relief it received during the coronavirus pandemic.
Tesco announced the move this morning, following criticism that the supermarkets didn’t need the help - as they have enjoyed a sales boost during the crisis, and kept paying dividends to investors.
Tesco to repay Covid-19 business rates relief
Good morning, and welcome to our rolling coverage of the world economy, the financial markets, the eurozone and business.
Some breaking news to start the morning - Tesco, UK’s largest supermarket chain, is repaying £585m of business rates relief it received during the coronavirus pandemic.
Tesco announced the move this morning, following criticism that the supermarkets didn’t need the help - as they have enjoyed a sales boost during the crisis, and kept paying dividends to investors.
Much to commend that. Though they would probably take flak for queue jumping to get their vaccinations!
I think it was Van Tam who insisted he would be rolling up his sleeve immediately if it were ethical for him to get one now.