Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

The covid on salads thing has been kicking around since the very beginning of the outbreak but the thing is it's multifactorial (gotta love that word) there's many other things that surround the production of fresh foods that could lead to contamination.
Take packaging for example how many times does that packet get touched by human hand before it ends up in your fridge, much more so than the lettuce it contains but do you still sanitize the container like I do ?

Shifting the argument slightly how about your mail, do you still handle it with your bare hands as you always have done in the past. Cardboard & paper are notorious for holding onto the covid virus for days on end, personally I still use gloves for mail with important letters stored in folders for future perusal when covid safe.

Do you sanitize your door knocker/bell or your front gate, how far do you want to go?
Going back to fresh foods, there's far more danger from other diseases like salmonella & e-coli than covid on your cucumber believe me.

..The difference is that there are treatments for e coli and salmonella. And yes we are rather careful about these other pathways. The one I think about is the fortnightly bin collection. I have no problem putting the bin out with bare hands, as it has been sitting in the rain and sun for 2 weeks, but I do ensure I take it back using a paper tissue. The bin collectors will have perhaps touched 200 bins in the 3 hours before mine, and even if they have gloves, any one handle could have been infected.

I think the problem with cardboard is overstated. ..the material will dessicate the virus. More worrying would be the plastic milk container, held at low temperature in the shop

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Has anybody got a spare pair of reading glasses that they can lend to Old Groaner. He's misplaced his and can't find them, so he's unable to read the Guardian and show us proudly what he's found in it today.

He’s got his Jeremy Corbyn tie done up so tightly around his neck that it’s strangling him, causing hypoxia and he’s become delusional.

 

[oldgroaner]

Has anybody got a spare pair of reading glasses that they can lend to Old Groaner. He's misplaced his and can't find them, so he's unable to read the Guardian and show us proudly what he's found in it today.

Super bicycle repair man is attempting humour now eh?
Or is it a rather weak attempt at sarcasm?
The real answer is the thread hardly contains any on topic posts at the moment, Covid being an understandable diversion, the non existent so called "Alien invasion" over the channel and a debate on the muppet show election in the USA certainly don't grab my interest, especially when an idiot comes out with corny conspiracy nonsense postings.
When there is something I regard as significant regarding Brexit, then I shall comment.
Meanwhile carry on wasting time, by all means
After all that what he came on to do.

 

[Woosh]

I think the problem with cardboard is overstated. ..the material will dessicate the virus. More worrying would be the plastic milk container, held at low temperature in the shop

we need something to stick to the virus then dissolve its lipid shell.
I use a wet j-cloth with a bit of fairy liquid to wipe all food packaging.

 

[flecc]

you have a preconceived view of what's happening in the world

That's you in your little world of Portsmouth and Southampton.

applying sections of it to support you distorted view cut & paste style.

I've done no cut and pasting on this and if you'd kept your eyes open you'd know that is very far from my style.

You still insist London benefited from a hard initial hit of covid but can supply no figures to supdport that claim.

If you'd been reading you know that I have, many times. So once again, in March and April we commenced the pandemic with 2.5 times the national rate, which then quite quickly dropped to well below the national rate. Indeed there were published articles commenting on that phenomenon and I've posted about it many times. Now our worst affected London Borough has an infection rate of 181.7 in 100,000, very far below the worst affected Northern English areas which have between 400 and well over 600.

You insist your own borough is doing well because people on the whole ignore covid rules but I would not call 411 cases in a week doing well at all, those are your own official council figures not mine.

Thank you for showing how well we are doing. Back at the start of the pandemic my borough held the record of being the worst affected in London, reported in here and much criticized in this thread. This meant we were also the worst affected in the whole of the UK and all of Northern Europe at that time. Now our Croydon infection rate is 88.2 in 100,000, half that of our worst London Borough, one fifth of Liverpool's and less that one seventh of the worst affected English Northern areas. That's why we resent being in tier 2.

I can support my findings from my own area through contacts I have in the council - health service - care homes - community services and many other authorities, I have many fingers in many pies.

You have a vivid imagination. Do you wear a T shirt with a big red S on the front?

let's talk about the success of countries that pulled it off and continue to thrive

That's exactly what I've been posting about, their previous successes and their failures since.
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Flecc you said 'until a vaccine arrives'. Fact is one may never arrive.

We still don't have a vaccine for HIV and the reason is because it mutates so much - you just can't produce a vaccine that works. From my reading this is the problem with COVID - it mutates - some studies suggesting even more than HIV.

So it may well come down to 'managing' it through other drugs just like HIV is now - successfully - managed.

Were not managing it (and no one else is, nor is that feasible or on the horizon). As neil fergusson say tier 2 and 3 restrictions are inadequate to control spread and deaths (310 and 24.7k today)and new infections will (if boris doesn't do another u turn and complete lockdown) escalate higher than March and stay there until spring.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Super bicycle repair man is attempting humour now eh?
Or is it a rather weak attempt at sarcasm?
The real answer is the thread hardly contains any on topic posts at the moment, Covid being an understandable diversion, the non existent so called "Alien invasion" over the channel and a debate on the muppet show election in the USA certainly don't grab my interest, especially when an idiot comes out with corny conspiracy nonsense postings.
When there is something I regard as significant regarding Brexit, then I shall comment.
Meanwhile carry on wasting time, by all means
After all that what he came on to do.

Until the two half housetrained imaginatively challenged right wing leprechauns significantly improve the quality of their heckling and humour (jokes about medicine, neckties and glasses were desperate and unfunny in grade one), I wouldn't bother.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Were not managing it (and no one else is, nor is that feasible or on the horizon). As neil fergusson say tier 2 and 3 restrictions are inadequate to control spread and deaths (310 and 24.7k today)and new infections will (if boris doesn't do another u turn and complete lockdown) escalate higher than March and stay there until spring.

People don’t want the lockdown restrictions. They don’t have sufficient mental strength or the character to dig in and get the job done. We are just going to have to get used to the persistently high death rate until late Spring. They can’t have it both ways.

There was a ******* idiot woman on a radio phone in this morning bawling because she might not be able to see her grandchildren at Christmas. She is too stupid to realise that the idea of temporally not seeing her grandchildren is to keep her alive. The alternative is seeing the grand kids at Christmas, and maybe never again after that because she will be dead.

People are so ******* stupid. They are virus food.

 

[sjpt]

People don’t want the lockdown restrictions. They don’t have sufficient mental strength or the character to dig in and get the job done. We are just going to have to get used to the persistently high death rate until late Spring. They can’t have it both ways.

There was a ******* idiot woman on a radio phone in this morning bawling because she might not be able to see her grandchildren at Christmas. She is too stupid to realise that the idea of temporally not seeing her grandchildren is to keep her alive. The alternative is seeing the grand kids at Christmas, and maybe never again after that because she will be dead.

People are so ******* stupid. They are virus food.

Not necessarily stupid. Many people would rather have a happy few months life including treats like grandchildren (even ending in a rather horrible death) than years living with nothing to live for.

 

[oldgroaner]

He’s got his Jeremy Corbyn tie done up so tightly around his neck that it’s strangling him, causing hypoxia and he’s become delusional.

You know very well I have never been a Corbyn fan, are you going gaga like Trump?
Or has Super Bicycle repair man been selling you his pond life sourced conspiracy theories?

 

[oldgroaner]

And here's more to upset the Right wingers that have recently crept in on the thread
https://www.ft.com/content/da027670-fb09-4a58-b213-bcd025f69d7c

Labour challenges Liz Truss over benefits to UK from Japan FTA. Govt study indicates Japanese exporters will get 83% of the benefit & UK exporters just 17%! Easy to sign deals when you're giving away the lion's share. The incompetence is staggering!

Well people were dumb enough to vote in the leave cabal and this is all they can achieve
Elsewhere they had also claimed that "Soya"(Soy) sauce would be tariff free, forgetting it already is while we are still in the EU
But it isn't hard to please thick as a brick supporters who voted for them is it?

 

[oldgroaner]

Until the two half housetrained imaginatively challenged right wing leprechauns significantly improve the quality of their heckling and humour (jokes about medicine, neckties and glasses were desperate and unfunny in grade one), I wouldn't bother.

I'm invariably tolerant when dealing with children , especially ones that have been led astray with lies and promises

 

[jonathan.agnew]

People don’t want the lockdown restrictions. They don’t have sufficient mental strength or the character to dig in and get the job done. We are just going to have to get used to the persistently high death rate until late Spring. They can’t have it both ways.

There was a ******* idiot woman on a radio phone in this morning bawling because she might not be able to see her grandchildren at Christmas. She is too stupid to realise that the idea of temporally not seeing her grandchildren is to keep her alive. The alternative is seeing the grand kids at Christmas, and maybe never again after that because she will be dead.

People are so ******* stupid. They are virus food.

People dont want to pay tax. And get immigrants to do work they dont want to do (which is any). And have benefits. And hospitals and social services staffed by immigrants offering them first world service while asking for nothing in return. And get to be xenophobic prejudiced twats with denigrating views of those who do all this for them. You know, like when they voted for brexit.
Its governments role when its responsible (and not the knee jerking short term money obsessed populist tory idiots we have) to maintain an ordered society by getting people to do some things they dont like.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

People dont want to pay tax. And get immigrants to do work they dont want to do (which is any). And have benefits. And hospitals and social services staffed by immigrants offering them first world service while asking for nothing in return. And get to be xenophobic prejudiced twats with denigrating views of those who do all this for them. You know, like when they voted for brexit.
Its governments role when its responsible (and not the knee jerking short term money obsessed populist tory idiots we have) to maintain an ordered society by getting people to do some things they dont like.

Any government can only do so much. I’ve been exposed to exactly the same information as everyone else. I try my best to do what’s right, some people behave like c*nts. That’s just the way it rolls and we will face the consequences.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Any government can only do so much. I’ve been exposed to exactly the same information as everyone else. I try my best to do what’s right, some people behave like c*nts. That’s just the way it rolls and we will face the consequences.

Youd have to be very far out on a very strange limb to think the boris/cummings govt has done "only so much" (on the contrary they have deliberately killed those in care homes and tried to hide this and have been inconsistent as part of confusing the public and making them carry the can for their deliberate inconsistency. The government has been criminally irresponsible. The public largely responsible by comparison.

 

[RossG]

..The difference is that there are treatments for e coli and salmonella. And yes we are rather careful about these other pathways. The one I think about is the fortnightly bin collection. I have no problem putting the bin out with bare hands, as it has been sitting in the rain and sun for 2 weeks, but I do ensure I take it back using a paper tissue. The bin collectors will have perhaps touched 200 bins in the 3 hours before mine, and even if they have gloves, any one handle could have been infected.

I think the problem with cardboard is overstated. ..the material will dessicate the virus. More worrying would be the plastic milk container, held at low temperature in the shop

Advice on touching cardboard has always been odd, it was said at first letters & other mail is ok to touch but covid stays on cardboard longer but it's never been explained why as both are made of wood fibre after all.
I just put on rubber gloves when touching anything grubby but then I always have done for as long as I can remember so no change there. I keep a spray bottle of bleach that I mixed up myself on the kitchen sink just for spraying on the gloves after use, a quick blast in one palm while their still on then rub them over like your washing your hands then off they come completely sterilised until next time. Bleach only on the gloves, steriliser spray on everything else, milk cartons inc.

 

[RossG]

That's you in your little world of Portsmouth and Southampton.



I've done no cut and pasting on this and if you'd kept your eyes open you'd know that is very far from my style.



If you'd been reading you know that I have, many times. So once again, in March and April we commenced the pandemic with 2.5 times the national rate, which then quite quickly dropped to well below the national rate. Indeed there were published articles commenting on that phenomenon and I've posted about it many times. Now our worst affected London Borough has an infection rate of 181.7 in 100,000, very far below the worst affected Northern English areas which have between 400 and well over 600.



Thank you for showing how well we are doing. Back at the start of the pandemic my borough held the record of being the worst affected in London, reported in here and much criticized in this thread. This meant we were also the worst affected in the whole of the UK and all of Northern Europe at that time. Now our Croydon infection rate is 88.2 in 100,000, half that of our worst London Borough, one fifth of Liverpool's and less that one seventh of the worst affected English Northern areas. That's why we resent being in tier 2.



You have a vivid imagination. Do you wear a T shirt with a big red S on the front?



That's exactly what I've been posting about, their previous successes and their failures since.
.

You would be absolutely staggered if you knew who I was involved with and why, I wont even go there

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Youd have to be very far out on a very strange limb to think the boris/cummings govt has done "only so much" (on the contrary they have deliberately killed those in care homes and tried to hide this and have been inconsistent as part of confusing the public and making them carry the can for their deliberate inconsistency. The government has been criminally irresponsible. The public largely responsible by comparison.

What about the TSIW? Her government knowingly sent hundreds of COVID positive people to care homes and deliberately withheld that information from the homes. Where is your criticism?

You are so biased it’s impossible to do anything except take the pi$$ on this forum and generally be a disruptive nuisance.

 

[RossG]

I always thought a TSIW was a kind of Chinese cake ?

 

[jonathan.agnew]

What about the TSIW? Her government knowingly sent hundreds of COVID positive people to care homes and deliberately withheld that information from the homes. Where is your criticism?

You are so biased it’s impossible to do anything except take the pi$$ on this forum and generally be a disruptive nuisance.

A study by the university of sterling's management school found care home in england experienced a 79% increase in excess deaths during the (previous) peak of the pandemic compared to a 62% increase in scotland (and 49% increase in ireland)