Brexit, for once some facts.

[sjpt]

Can somebody make a rational explanation of this for me please.

I've just seen a clip of Biden's latest rally in Warm Springs, where there were about 30 people in the audience and hardly a sound as Biden walks on the stage. Every single Trump rally is packed beyond capacity with cheering crowds. Thinking that Biden's clip was unrepresentative, I searched through all his recent rallies to see if I could find a crowd, but the cameras are always very careful to only show the stage, but you can tell that there's no cheering when he arrives and no cheering through his speech. It sounds like he's speaking to very few people.

This is where it gets weird. I typed into Google "Biden rally", then selected last month and photos. It gave a few pictures of Biden standing on a stage with no crowd and loads of pictures of Trump in front of masses of waving people. I then changed it to "Biden rally crowd" and it gave even more pictures of Trump and his crowds, and perhaps two photos of Biden by himself on a stage.

How can Biden be ahead in the polls? Where are his supporters?

It's quite simple. Trump's supporters like mindless rallies. Biden's like thinking and staying as healthy as they can.

I must admit that Biden's might not want to think too much about Biden, but a few seconds thinking about Trump is enough to make them a Biden supporter.)

 

[oyster]

Won't insult anyone by suggesting you might be surprised by this:

Brexit border software developers warn of delays
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54706263

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

I wonder if the French will stop their people trafficking operations now they are responsible for killing two children.

Disgusting nation. They should face sanctions from the UN.

 

[flecc]

We are both talking about the same thing but applying a different logic and therefore a different understanding as to cause & effect.

No we were not, I do know what I posted and it had nothing to do with the circumstances above. While those are undoubtedly true, they do not account for what has been happening worldwide in all areas, many with very different circumstances.

What is happening everywhere does precisely support what have been saying for several months, so while that continues to hold true I will stick with it. The only thing that will stop it happening is an effective vaccine and all the defensive measures will continue to ultimately fail. Everyone who can get it will get it eventually and suffer it to varying degrees until that vaccine arrives.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

No we were not, I do know what I posted and it had nothing to do with the circumstances above. While those are undoubtedly true, they do not account for what has been happening worldwide in all areas, many with very different circumstances.

What is happening everywhere does precisely support what have been saying for several months, so while that continues to hold true I will stick with it. The only thing that will stop it happening is an effective vaccine and all the defensive measures will continue to untimately fail. Everyone who can get it will get it eventually and suffer it to varying degrees until that vaccine arrives.
.

I don’t think defensive measures will ultimately fail. The idea of defensive measures is to stop everyone getting the infection at the same time, thus overwhelming the NHS and resulting in people who would have otherwise survived, dying.

The effectiveness of the measures, people’s efforts and sacrifices will be undone to some extent by those who dismiss them. That’s why those people need hitting with harsh financial penalties.

But I do agree, with out a vaccine everyone is going to get it at some stage. The measures are there to maximise our chances of surviving when we do get the infection.

 

[flecc]

But I do agree, with out a vaccine everyone is going to get it at some stage. The measures are there to maximise our chances of surviving when we do get the infection.

That isn't what I meant by defensive measures, those are medical measures to deal with the infection once caught. I've no probem with those.

Defensive measures are the civil measures taken to prevent spread.

But what is the point of defensive measures if we are all going to get it in the end as you acknowledge, and the cost of the civil measures is immeasurable harm to the economy and everyone's future?
.

 

[oyster]

Everyone who can get it will get it eventually and suffer it to varying degrees until that vaccine arrives.

There is still a lot to research regarding quite how much viral matter needs to be transferred in order for someone to become infected.

Could it be that very low level infection, as might occur far enough away from others not to receive a "full" dose but close enough to get some, will in time confer some level of protection?

 

[flecc]

There is still a lot to research regarding quite how much viral matter needs to be transferred in order for someone to become infected.

Could it be that very low level infection, as might occur far enough away from others not to receive a "full" dose but close enough to get some, will in time confer some level of protection?

I'm quite sure it will at all levels of infection. All of our experience with, and history of infections tells us immunity eventually results in almost all cases. But it looks like it will take a long time with this one, so I think infection is likely to be universal first, unless we get a vaccine.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

Flecc you said 'until a vaccine arrives'. Fact is one may never arrive.

We still don't have a vaccine for HIV and the reason is because it mutates so much - you just can't produce a vaccine that works. From my reading this is the problem with COVID - it mutates - some studies suggesting even more than HIV.

So it may well come down to 'managing' it through other drugs just like HIV is now - successfully - managed.

 

[Woosh]

a few seconds thinking about Trump is enough to make them a Biden supporter.

 

[RossG]

Please don't invite me round for a salad.

If the local council would hurry up with my allotment request I'd have 6 months fresh supply of that too, I'm envious of the locals who keep telling me they're having a great time digging up their autumn produce & keeping fit at the same time

 

[Danidl]

If the local council would hurry up with my allotment request I'd have 6 months fresh supply of that too, I'm envious of the locals who keep telling me they're having a great time digging up their autumn produce & keeping fit at the same time

Had I known how easy it was to grow salads, I would have done it earlier.. just a discarded Dirty tote box, a bag of compost and a sprinkle of seeds ..if heavily sown, there are fresh baby leaves every day after 3 weeks and it is just cut and come again. .lasts for months Red onions the same ..just another box. The onion leaf is even nicer than the bulb.
I began to get worried about salads and lettuces in particular in the supermarket in mid march as carriers for CV19. . The surface area is large people cough etc..

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

What are the odds that if England has COVID restrictions over Christmas, the TSIW will relax them in Scotland.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

There is another Black Lives Matter looting jamboree taking place on the USA. Don’t try and stick a big knife into the policeman. If you do, you will get shot in the face regardless of what colour you are. How difficult is that to comply with? FFS, these people are just looking for any excuse and if one doesn’t exist, which is most of the time, they invent one.

 

[flecc]

Flecc you said 'until a vaccine arrives'. Fact is one may never arrive.

We still don't have a vaccine for HIV and the reason is because it mutates so much - you just can't produce a vaccine that works. From my reading this is the problem with COVID - it mutates - some studies suggesting even more than HIV.

So it may well come down to 'managing' it through other drugs just like HIV is now - successfully - managed.

Indeed, on my previous posts taking this line I've posted "if or until" but neglected to do so this time. Given how we have to create a new flu vaccine every year and Covid's similarity to flu, I think it very likely we'll be unsuccessfulagain.
.

 

[flecc]

I began to get worried about salads and lettuces in particular in the supermarket in mid march as carriers for CV19. . The surface area is large people cough etc..

That worry was even raised for pre-washed and packaged salads on a TV program recently, questioning the hygene standards at production facilities.
.

 

[sjpt]

That worry was even raised for pre-washed and packaged salads on a TV program recently, questioning the hygene standards at production facilities.

Pre-washed and packed are the worst. We have a salad packing facility fairly close and several friends have done short stints of work there (vac jobs etc); none of them would buy pre-washed salad.

 

[RossG]

No we were not, I do know what I posted and it had nothing to do with the circumstances above. While those are undoubtedly true, they do not account for what has been happening worldwide in all areas, many with very different circumstances.

What is happening everywhere does precisely support what have been saying for several months, so while that continues to hold true I will stick with it. The only thing that will stop it happening is an effective vaccine and all the defensive measures will continue to ultimately fail. Everyone who can get it will get it eventually and suffer it to varying degrees until that vaccine arrives.
.

No....we're talking about exactly the same thing, covid the difference is you have a preconceived view of what's happening in the world and are applying sections of it to support you distorted view cut & paste style.
I don't have a problem with that as it's incorrect anyway so matters not only the penny has already dropped.

You still insist London benefited from a hard initial hit of covid but can supply no figures to support that claim.
You insist your own borough is doing well because people on the whole ignore covid rules but I would not call 411 cases in a week doing well at all, those are your own official council figures not mine.
You say no one in your immediate area has or has had covid because like you they just ignore it, well you are a spiritualist you wont see the walking dead so how do you know that ? I can support my findings from my own area through contacts I have in the council - health service - care homes - community services and many other authorities, I have many fingers in many pies.

Instead of discussing the places of the world where covid hit hard (like London) let's talk about the success of countries that pulled it off and continue to thrive, the "masks don't work UK " certainly isn't one of them you'll agree on that I'm sure.

 

[RossG]

The covid on salads thing has been kicking around since the very beginning of the outbreak but the thing is it's multifactorial (gotta love that word) there's many other things that surround the production of fresh foods that could lead to contamination.
Take packaging for example how many times does that packet get touched by human hand before it ends up in your fridge, much more so than the lettuce it contains but do you still sanitize the container like I do ?

Shifting the argument slightly how about your mail, do you still handle it with your bare hands as you always have done in the past. Cardboard & paper are notorious for holding onto the covid virus for days on end, personally I still use gloves for mail with important letters stored in folders for future perusal when covid safe.

Do you sanitize your door knocker/bell or your front gate, how far do you want to go?
Going back to fresh foods, there's far more danger from other diseases like salmonella & e-coli than covid on your cucumber believe me.

 

[vfr400]

Has anybody got a spare pair of reading glasses that they can lend to Old Groaner. He's misplaced his and can't find them, so he's unable to read the Guardian and show us proudly what he's found in it today.