Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

I took that to be what Woosh meant.

So what?
And there is a massive difference. Criticise the behaviour not the child.
I dont like your behaviour, comments and reactions but you are a decent type and I certainly dont dislike you.
And not discriminating between the state and its actions is making situation worse as Flecc explained so well.

 

[flecc]

Idealistically you might be correct but voters need to know prior to Election exactly where Labour stand on Brexit. Wether they wish to take us out or remain is important on a faith basis. Public need to know whichever government is chosen has a desire to carry out leave (or remain) with conviction rather than paying mere lip service to a public desire. Afterall our current predicameny is partly caused by a cabinet attempting to carry out a refereendum result they did not really believe in. (Cameron and May were both remainers as, I believe, was Boris not that long ago)
Voters have a right to know where MPs stand prior to electing them. Labour suggesting they would follow will of people is IMHO a fudge so Labour can maintain the hope of attracting both leavers and remainers. In reality both may well desert labour for a more straight forward approach.
Trouble is in his heart Corbyn is probably one of the few true leavers. He has never suported any EU votes or initiatives in his entire career. Almost the complete opposite of BJ at moment.

All completely true, but I still prefer what Labour will most likely offer.

A short while ago I was listening to people on BBC Radio 4 saying they disliked Jeremy Corbyn, but then confirming they will be voting Labour. I'm not surprised by that since they are only saying they dislike Corbyn since they've been told to. Their original core beliefs remain in place.

Before being told what to believe about Corbyn, none of them had any opinion about him, most probably hadn't even heard of him.

The fact is that the bulk of the population are sheep, following the media and the majority opinion the media generates.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

So what?
And there is a massive difference. Criticise the behaviour not the child.
I dont like your behaviour, comments and reactions but you are a decent type and I certainly dont dislike you.

What are you on about?
This is the sequence
Woosh

JC does not like the state of Israel.

You
He doesnt like many policies of state of Israel and actions against Palestine. To say he doesnt like State of Israel is probably a right wing media construct.
Me
I took that to be what Woosh meant.
You
So what?
And there is a massive difference. Criticise the behaviour not the child.
I dont like your behaviour, comments and reactions but you are a decent type and I certainly dont dislike you.

You really don't know what you are doing do you?
You never miss an opportunity to be unpleasant, given the slightest opportunity.

 

[Fingers]

China had excellent results. When the one child policy was introduced their rate of population increase was on course to take then to two billions at a frightening rate. The one child policy long held it to around 1.2 billions with even India threatening to overtake them.

In fact they had to ease the policy since they were getting short of workers and have since allowed the population to rise to nearly 1.4 billions with a birth rate per woman now of 1.62.

The anti population control faction in the West constantly tried to show it wasn't working by overemphasizing the few thousands of breaches of the policy, but they were forgetting China's high wastage rates. For example the average of 80 coal miners alone killed there every week.
.

Yes. Excellent results is a wonderful way to describe baby girls bodies being dumped in gutters and bins.

 

[flecc]

So what?
And there is a massive difference. Criticise the behaviour not the child.
I dont like your behaviour, comments and reactions but you are a decent type and I certainly dont dislike you.

As I posted, I also don't like the State of Israel, but I certainly don't dislike all Jewish people. Some are my relatives, I've both worked with and for Jewish people and had Jewish friends.

My dislike of the Israeli State is for the corrupt way in which it was set up, the way in which has been protected ever since, the way in which it is artificially and unfairly supported, the way in which it has been allowed to defy UN resolutions, its abuse of the Palestinian people and the way in which that State is trying to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian identity into extinction.
.

 

[flecc]

Yes. Excellent results is a wonderful way to describe baby girls bodies being dumped in gutters and bins.

Don't be stupidly offensive, you well know that I was commenting on the intended target of the policy, which was excellently fulfilled.

I'm well aware of how ruthless and inhumane their policies are in many respects including the one child one, as I illustrated with another example of the coal mining deaths.
.

 

[Fingers]

Don't be stupidly offensive, you well know that I was commenting on the intended target of the policy, which was excellently fulfilled.

I'm well aware of how ruthless and inhumane their policies are in many respects including the one child one, as I illustrated with another example of the coal mining deaths.
.

It was a disgusting practice. One I am fundamentally against.

If you wish to exhort it's values then that's in you.

You are basically allowing the practice of killing little girls.

 

[Fingers]

On you. Not in you. Spell check was wrong

 

[flecc]

It was a disgusting practice. One I am fundamentally against.

If you wish to exhort it's values then that's on you.

I am not exhorting any values, just reporting facts in a reply.
.

 

[Fingers]

I am not exhorting any values, just reporting facts in a reply.
.

Now I'm no lawyer but when someone says a practice has. And I quote. Excellent values then it's fair to say you are exhorting it's values.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Zlatan]

What are you on about?
This is the sequence
Woosh

You
He doesnt like many policies of state of Israel and actions against Palestine. To say he doesnt like State of Israel is probably a right wing media construct.
Me
I took that to be what Woosh meant.
You
So what?
And there is a massive difference. Criticise the behaviour not the child.
I dont like your behaviour, comments and reactions but you are a decent type and I certainly dont dislike you.

You really don't know what you are doing do you?
You never miss an opportunity to be unpleasant, given the slightest opportunity.

Obviously the concept of criticising a States' actions as opposed to the State itself is rather too complex for you to grasp so I wont try again. Dont make yourself look less intelligent than you actually are OG, much as it would be difficult for you to achieve, you seen capable of doing so today.

 

[Woosh]

Obviously the concept of criticising a States' actions as opposed to the State itself is rather too complex for you to grasp so I wont try again.

surely you can appreciate the difference between Yitzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres and Benjamin Netanyahu?

 

[flecc]

Now I'm no lawyer but when someone says a practice has. And I quote. Excellent values then it's fair to say you are exhorting it's values.

Wouldn't you agree?

No, that is a reaction that includes your emotional values. There's nothing wrong with reporting cold unemotional facts. One day far, far into the future we may have AI robotic reporters who just give us the bare facts and a balanced selection of images, enabling us to apply our own emotional values and not have those of the media people foisted upon us.

My emotional values concerning the Chinese one child implementations and outcomes for the people are the same as yours, but that wasn't what I was speaking of. For those who want to remind themselves of those horrors of that subject, there's a 1 hour 25 minute film made by Chinese people and showing on BBC4 at 9 pm on Monday.
.

 

[Zlatan]

surely you can appreciate the difference between Yitzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres and Benjamin Netanyahu?

I can but you were the one criticising, well disliking, the State as opposed to representatives or policies of that State.
The State rarely holds the views, values and beliefs of an individual and when it does it usually reflects a dangerou State and state. (ie Hitler and Third Reich) Come on Woosh, you, ve studied philosophy more than I.
Would you say you disliked the USA because of Trump's policies, behavior or actions. No, you wouldnt. You only criticise Trump, his administration and his follies.
Saying you dislike the USA because of recent political developments would be misguided and wrong. You might dislike certain choices the USA has made because of Trump but that for an educated person would be unlikely to lead to a dislike of USA. (Jeremy Clarkson excluded)
Why is it different for Israel? Is it anti semitism? You tell me.
Its exactly the mistake Corbyn has made. He should make it clear he dislikes their treatment of Palestine and their treatment of people there. Instead its easy to interpret his opinion as a dislike of all the State stands for, its people and Jews in general. That can be interpreted, and is, as anti semitism. Probably wrongly.
When we criticise, or dislike, something we should be precise and not generalise. Generalising the states' current policy and behaviour to the State as a whole becomes a criticism of the State in its entirety, and probably in Israel's case even its very existence. That is surely anti semitism, even though all those on here disliking the State of Israel would deny it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Obviously the concept of criticising a States' actions as opposed to the State itself is rather too complex for you to grasp so I wont try again. Dont make yourself look less intelligent than you actually are OG, much as it would be difficult for you to achieve, you seen capable of doing so today.

As I said you really don't realise what you are saying do you?

 

[daveboy]

surely you can appreciate the difference between Yitzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres and Benjamin Netanyahu?

Not without Google

 

[Zlatan]

As I said you really don't realise what you are saying do you?

No, I know precisely what I am saying. It may well be wrong or misguided like all of our ramblings, except yours ofcourse.
Perhaps your criticism should be levelled at those posters claiming to dislike the State of Israel.

 

[flecc]

The State rarely holds the views, values and beliefs of an individual and when it does it usually reflects a dangerous State and state. (ie Hitler and Third Reich)

i.e. and Zionism.
.

 

[flecc]

Generalising the states' current policy and behaviour to the State as a whole becomes a criticism of the State in its entirety, and probably in Israel's case even its very existence. That is surely anti semitism, even though all those on here disliking the State of Israel would deny it.

Of course we deny it, it simply isn't true and cannot be when so many Israeli citizens are strongly opposed to so many of their state's policies.

I've explained why I dislike of the State of Israel and there's not a single anti semitic element in it. How can there be when the Israeli State itself practices anti semitism.
.

 

[Zlatan]

i.e. and Zionism.
.

Clever... and correct.