Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

In the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/26/opinium-poll-observer-uk-voters-regret-brexit-referendum-conservative-lead-over-labour
Brexit referendum should never have been called, say majority of voters
Poll shows growing hindsight regret on leaving EU … but a 16% Tory lead in a general election
Twice as many people now think it would have been better never to have held a referendum on Brexit than believe it was a good idea, according to the latest Opinium poll for the Observer.

Asked to consider the difficulties the government has had in reaching an agreement, 57% of UK adults surveyed said that they believed it would have been better not to have had a public vote in June 2016.

This compares with 29% of voters who believe it was right to hold the referendum on whether the UK should stay in or leave the EU.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well now...

 

[Woosh]

nothing wrong with that except gifting Bojo 5 more years.
conservatives and BXP will ally to wipe out Labour in leave constituencies.

 

[50Hertz]

conservatives and BXP will ally to wipe out Labour in leave constituencies.

Johnson has vowed that will never happen, so stand by for it happening.

 

[Fingers]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now. Well a few weeks.

I think a lot of it is because of Johnson. And maybe I never thought we’d ever leave at all anyway.

And maybe I’ve been brow beaten by relentless media articles. Which is ironic as I do some of them. I did a piece today for Al Jazeera that was about their presidential race In Argentina. What caught my eye was the rush to buy dollars. But in those same money exchanges was the Euro. It’s seen as stable and importantly, an option against the dollar. The dollar is gold standard because of oil trading. But maybe that won’t be the biggest thing in the next two decades.

Trump is also a factor, it shows us that we can be twisted into things that we really don’t want to do by foreign actors. The inevitable rise of China is also an issue. It’s difficult to play fair when you are against a billion or so brainwashed slaves.

The world is shrinking. But not in a way that empowers the people. Not yet at least. I’ve said for nearly two decades that capitalism will be dead by the turn of this century. If you use capitalism rules it died in 2008. When you print bits of paper and call it money the game is up.

But as Churchill said etc....

Anyway. I don’t want Brexit anymore. I truly believe the current EU is the wrong path. I really do. But looking at the utter spaccachumps we have steering the wheel it’s better than we will ever achieve.

Look at how they have outsmarted them at every turn. I do agree with the argument that we had Lord haw haws and if we had someone committed to the exit we could have made a fist of it. But that’s over now.

It’s clear to see. We need to be tight with Japan, Canada, Italy, Kenya, South Africa, Australia, India, South Korea etc. The world needs the EU.

We should have a confirmatory vote on this deal.

If labour were smart. If Corbyn was half as smart as me, and it’s accepted here I am a moron then he could use this to win an election.

The game is up.

Believe me nothing anyone here has posited has changed my mind. In fact I would say some of you remainists entrenched my views.

Although I will say whoosh saying he will leave the country gave me pause for thought. And fifty, nev and Dave plus my man make me think, I still think it’s bad for us leave the EU.

If anyone wants to make the point that I have bought a cheap Brexit house.

I think that’s fair.

But I am now someone who doesn’t regret voting out. But I would vote in now.

 

[Woosh]

I would be happy with a Norway or even Switzerland style brexit.

 

[50Hertz]

What is Boris doing?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-gives-up-7bn-windfall-from-european-investment-bank-tq0qskgfc

UK gives up £7bn windfall from European Investment Bank
Boris Johnson has given up on a windfall for the UK of almost £7bn, which would have covered more than a fifth of the “divorce bill” from the EU.

Under the terms of the new withdrawal bill, which passed its second reading in parliament last Tuesday, Britain has abandoned any claim to the accumulated profits from the European Investment Bank (EIB), which is owned by EU nations.

The UK put in €3.5bn to help finance the EIB in 1973, 16.1% of the total at the time. The EIB, which has invested in infrastructure projects including Crossrail and the London “super sewer”, has since built up reserves through retained profits.

At the end of 2018 the UK’s share of the reserves was worth £6.5bn. That is estimated to have risen to almost £7bn. However, the withdrawal agreement states that the UK will receive only what it paid in 1973, without profits or interest."

I must say
"I'm Impressed"
Not favourably you understand,
But impressed
There is an appropriate image

All I can say to Brexiteers is it certainly looks like you are going to get the Government you deserve.
"Not a good start Boris" as some might say.
I'm sorry , I shouldn't laugh really, but then what else can we do?
What an absolute shower they are.. look at them..
As John Wayne once said
"Ya look like ten miles of bad road"

16,141,241 to beam up immediately Scotty, and no doubt more presently...
We're going to need a bigger ship.

Hang on a minute there's more!
"Critics of the agreement have said it leaves the UK with liabilities relating to the eurozone. Robert Rowland, the Brexit Party MEP, said the UK could be forced to pay in more than €37bn in share capital, particularly in the event of a eurozone crisis. "

No this cannot be happening, I refuse to believe this reality, can we have another one please?

So, we have given up £7 000 000 000.00 worth of assets, add to that the £7 000 000 000.00 cost of fending off some of the Brexit damage so far and that comes to £14 000 000 000.00 cost of Brexit to date. It’s very likely we will be paying £39 000 000 000.00 to the EU when we leave making the cost of Brexit about £43 000 000 000.00 (Forty three thousand million pounds).

Once the forty three thousand million pounds has been paid, we can get on with enjoying the main event as Brexidiots lose their jobs and government revenue shrinks as a result. It gets even better, off-shore investment funds will enjoy greater protection from the tax office, so at least the factory workers and other low paid / low skilled workers will have their Cayman Island investment funds to live off.

 

[Zlatan]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now. Well a few weeks.

I think a lot of it is because of Johnson. And maybe I never thought we’d ever leave at all anyway.

And maybe I’ve been brow beaten by relentless media articles. Which is ironic as I do some of them. I did a piece today for Al Jazeera that was about their presidential race In Argentina. What caught my eye was the rush to buy dollars. But in those same money exchanges was the Euro. It’s seen as stable and importantly, an option against the dollar. The dollar is gold standard because of oil trading. But maybe that won’t be the biggest thing in the next two decades.

Trump is also a factor, it shows us that we can be twisted into things that we really don’t want to do by foreign actors. The inevitable rise of China is also an issue. It’s difficult to play fair when you are against a billion or so brainwashed slaves.

The world is shrinking. But not in a way that empowers the people. Not yet at least. I’ve said for nearly two decades that capitalism will be dead by the turn of this century. If you use capitalism rules it died in 2008. When you print bits of paper and call it money the game is up.

But as Churchill said etc....

Anyway. I don’t want Brexit anymore. I truly believe the current EU is the wrong path. I really do. But looking at the utter spaccachumps we have steering the wheel it’s better than we will ever achieve.

Look at how they have outsmarted them at every turn. I do agree with the argument that we had Lord haw haws and if we had someone committed to the exit we could have made a fist of it. But that’s over now.

It’s clear to see. We need to be tight with Japan, Canada, Italy, Kenya, South Africa, Australia, India, South Korea etc. The world needs the EU.

We should have a confirmatory vote on this deal.

If labour were smart. If Corbyn was half as smart as me, and it’s accepted here I am a moron then he could use this to win an election.

The game is up.

Believe me nothing anyone here has posited has changed my mind. In fact I would say some of you remainists entrenched my views.

Although I will say whoosh saying he will leave the country gave me pause for thought. And fifty, nev and Dave plus my man make me think, I still think it’s bad for us leave the EU.

If anyone wants to make the point that I have bought a cheap Brexit house.

I think that’s fair.

But I am now someone who doesn’t regret voting out. But I would vote in now.

Agreed. Its about where I am. Good post BTW.

 

[50Hertz]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now. Well a few weeks.

I think a lot of it is because of Johnson. And maybe I never thought we’d ever leave at all anyway.

And maybe I’ve been brow beaten by relentless media articles. Which is ironic as I do some of them. I did a piece today for Al Jazeera that was about their presidential race In Argentina. What caught my eye was the rush to buy dollars. But in those same money exchanges was the Euro. It’s seen as stable and importantly, an option against the dollar. The dollar is gold standard because of oil trading. But maybe that won’t be the biggest thing in the next two decades.

Trump is also a factor, it shows us that we can be twisted into things that we really don’t want to do by foreign actors. The inevitable rise of China is also an issue. It’s difficult to play fair when you are against a billion or so brainwashed slaves.

The world is shrinking. But not in a way that empowers the people. Not yet at least. I’ve said for nearly two decades that capitalism will be dead by the turn of this century. If you use capitalism rules it died in 2008. When you print bits of paper and call it money the game is up.

But as Churchill said etc....

Anyway. I don’t want Brexit anymore. I truly believe the current EU is the wrong path. I really do. But looking at the utter spaccachumps we have steering the wheel it’s better than we will ever achieve.

Look at how they have outsmarted them at every turn. I do agree with the argument that we had Lord haw haws and if we had someone committed to the exit we could have made a fist of it. But that’s over now.

It’s clear to see. We need to be tight with Japan, Canada, Italy, Kenya, South Africa, Australia, India, South Korea etc. The world needs the EU.

We should have a confirmatory vote on this deal.

If labour were smart. If Corbyn was half as smart as me, and it’s accepted here I am a moron then he could use this to win an election.

The game is up.

Believe me nothing anyone here has posited has changed my mind. In fact I would say some of you remainists entrenched my views.

Although I will say whoosh saying he will leave the country gave me pause for thought. And fifty, nev and Dave plus my man make me think, I still think it’s bad for us leave the EU.

If anyone wants to make the point that I have bought a cheap Brexit house.

I think that’s fair.

But I am now someone who doesn’t regret voting out. But I would vote in now.

Nice post. It summarises many of my reasons for changing from leave to remain.

I believe that MPs will squander this chance for a second referendum, putting themselves ahead of the country, and we will leave the EU achieving a slow painful sinking, rather than an outright plunge straight to the sea bed.

 

[Woosh]

I believe that MPs will squander this chance for a second referendum

a second referendum without a remainist opposition leader will just boost hardline brexiters.

 

[50Hertz]

What are the LibDems playing at? Supporting a GE if no deal is taken off the table?

is there anything stopping Johnson saying,“ok, no deal is off the table” then getting and winning the GE with a working majority. You can guess the rest.......... Can he do that? If so, the LibDems need ........king with a ragman’s trumpet.

 

[oldgroaner]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now. Well a few weeks.

I think a lot of it is because of Johnson. And maybe I never thought we’d ever leave at all anyway.

And maybe I’ve been brow beaten by relentless media articles. Which is ironic as I do some of them. I did a piece today for Al Jazeera that was about their presidential race In Argentina. What caught my eye was the rush to buy dollars. But in those same money exchanges was the Euro. It’s seen as stable and importantly, an option against the dollar. The dollar is gold standard because of oil trading. But maybe that won’t be the biggest thing in the next two decades.

Trump is also a factor, it shows us that we can be twisted into things that we really don’t want to do by foreign actors. The inevitable rise of China is also an issue. It’s difficult to play fair when you are against a billion or so brainwashed slaves.

The world is shrinking. But not in a way that empowers the people. Not yet at least. I’ve said for nearly two decades that capitalism will be dead by the turn of this century. If you use capitalism rules it died in 2008. When you print bits of paper and call it money the game is up.

But as Churchill said etc....

Anyway. I don’t want Brexit anymore. I truly believe the current EU is the wrong path. I really do. But looking at the utter spaccachumps we have steering the wheel it’s better than we will ever achieve.

Look at how they have outsmarted them at every turn. I do agree with the argument that we had Lord haw haws and if we had someone committed to the exit we could have made a fist of it. But that’s over now.

It’s clear to see. We need to be tight with Japan, Canada, Italy, Kenya, South Africa, Australia, India, South Korea etc. The world needs the EU.

We should have a confirmatory vote on this deal.

If labour were smart. If Corbyn was half as smart as me, and it’s accepted here I am a moron then he could use this to win an election.

The game is up.

Believe me nothing anyone here has posited has changed my mind. In fact I would say some of you remainists entrenched my views.

Although I will say whoosh saying he will leave the country gave me pause for thought. And fifty, nev and Dave plus my man make me think, I still think it’s bad for us leave the EU.

If anyone wants to make the point that I have bought a cheap Brexit house.

I think that’s fair.

But I am now someone who doesn’t regret voting out. But I would vote in now.

My God!
There is a Father Christmas, there is! there is!
Who's next?

 

[50Hertz]

Over 70s not being allowed to vote? That won’t leave many people to vote because the fat, inactive, diabetic time bomb younger generation don’t turn out to vote anyway. They probably have less life expectancy than a 70 year old.

 

[50Hertz]

My God!
There is a Father Christmas, there is! there is!

Demonstrate some grace please. Fingers is to be applauded for his rational thinking.

 

[flecc]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now. Well a few weeks.

I think a lot of it is because of Johnson. And maybe I never thought we’d ever leave at all anyway.

And maybe I’ve been brow beaten by relentless media articles. Which is ironic as I do some of them. I did a piece today for Al Jazeera that was about their presidential race In Argentina. What caught my eye was the rush to buy dollars. But in those same money exchanges was the Euro. It’s seen as stable and importantly, an option against the dollar. The dollar is gold standard because of oil trading. But maybe that won’t be the biggest thing in the next two decades.

Trump is also a factor, it shows us that we can be twisted into things that we really don’t want to do by foreign actors. The inevitable rise of China is also an issue. It’s difficult to play fair when you are against a billion or so brainwashed slaves.

The world is shrinking. But not in a way that empowers the people. Not yet at least. I’ve said for nearly two decades that capitalism will be dead by the turn of this century. If you use capitalism rules it died in 2008. When you print bits of paper and call it money the game is up.

But as Churchill said etc....

Anyway. I don’t want Brexit anymore. I truly believe the current EU is the wrong path. I really do. But looking at the utter spaccachumps we have steering the wheel it’s better than we will ever achieve.

Look at how they have outsmarted them at every turn. I do agree with the argument that we had Lord haw haws and if we had someone committed to the exit we could have made a fist of it. But that’s over now.

It’s clear to see. We need to be tight with Japan, Canada, Italy, Kenya, South Africa, Australia, India, South Korea etc. The world needs the EU.

We should have a confirmatory vote on this deal.

If labour were smart. If Corbyn was half as smart as me, and it’s accepted here I am a moron then he could use this to win an election.

The game is up.

Believe me nothing anyone here has posited has changed my mind. In fact I would say some of you remainists entrenched my views.

Although I will say whoosh saying he will leave the country gave me pause for thought. And fifty, nev and Dave plus my man make me think, I still think it’s bad for us leave the EU.

If anyone wants to make the point that I have bought a cheap Brexit house.

I think that’s fair.

But I am now someone who doesn’t regret voting out. But I would vote in now.

A very fair post Fingers, still cognisant that the EU has many faults as I also recognise, but also acknowledging the importance of the euro. The latter you know I've always maintained to be true. I would still have preferred us to have joined the euro long ago, since that would have made it even more strong and important, easily rivalling the dollar.
.

 

[Woosh]

What are the LibDems playing at? Supporting a GE if no deal is taken off the table?

is there anything stopping Johnson saying,“ok, no deal is off the table” then getting and winning the GE with a working majority. You can guess the rest.......... Can he do that? If so, the LibDems need ........king with a ragman’s trumpet.

there is method in their madness.
The new Act proposed by the LibDems is amendable while Bojo's vote is not.

 

[Woosh]

A very fair post Fingers, still cognisant that the EU has many faults as I also recognise, but also acknowledging the importance of the euro. The latter you know I've always maintained to be true. I would still have preferred us to have joined the euro long ago, since that would have made it even more strong and important, easily rivalling the dollar.
.

If we had joined the Euro, our tax havens would have been controlled years ago.

 

[oldgroaner]

a second referendum without a remainist opposition leader will just boost hardline brexiters.

Who cares?
They have to suffer to learn, so let them, and enjoy.
After all it's gone over the edge where common sense could save it, hasn't it?
The important thing is not to allow yourself to become one of the casualties and wait for sense to return
After all even Fingers got there in the end, despite his best efforts.

 

[oldgroaner]

Demonstrate some grace please. Fingers is to be applauded for his rational thinking.

I was doing! (But bearing in mind this spasm of his might be a jest)
Or just a momentary glitch

 

[50Hertz]

I was doing! (But bearing in mind this spasm of his might be a jest)

It could be a joke, but let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and keep an open mind.